Comments on: PURITY OF ESSENCE

By: Joanna

Joanna — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 21:58:43 +0000

You're right. And, like the birthers, the anti-vax crowd will not be silenced by reasonable answers. If Obama produced the "long-form birth certificate" today and handed it over to Orly Taitz, she'd claim he forged it. The anti-vaxxers claimed thimerosol was causing autism, so the vaccine makers took out the thimerosol. And they still didn't vaccinate. "Oh, now we're concerned about…chemicals…toxins…" You can't win with these people. Mostly because they don't know what they're talking about. Making shit up is useful like that, because once you've removed yourself from the realm of logic, anything goes and you always get to be right.

Then there's the thing about science, how it's usually used to prove that something IS, and not that something ISN'T.

By: displaced capitalist

displaced capitalist — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 19:25:02 +0000

Joanna: What's the philisophical term? "You can't prove a negative?"

You're fighting a losing battle. You're arguing that there is no basis for jb's argument. jb says "Prove it" and there you are. Stuck. It's the entire foundation of the birther/teabagger movements.

By: Joanna

Joanna — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 16:36:23 +0000

Plenty of evidence is required to establish risk. To establish risk, you have to demonstrate that Action A as ever caused Result B. I know that driving a car is a risk because car accidents happen all the time, they've happened to me, and I can find statistics on how often they occur. I can go out right now and wrap my Honda around a telephone pole if I want to. When I drive, I risk an accident. A leads to B.

When we say that 'there is no demonstrable link between vaccines and autism," it means that A has never, EVER been conclusively demonstrated to result in B. And we need these standards, because otherwise we're afraid of crazy shit and meanwhile diseases are eating us. Because by your logic, anything can possibly cause anything. Lots of American women eat spaghetti. Lots of American women get pregnant. Spaghetti causes pregnancy!

Correlation =/= causation.

By: meh

meh — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 13:08:41 +0000

MEH.

By: jazzbumpa

jazzbumpa — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 03:05:56 +0000

That's bit of snark.

By: jazzbumpa

jazzbumpa — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 02:58:14 +0000

Lovely but of snark, Joanna.

What level of evidence is required for something to qualify as risk?

By: Joanna

Joanna — Wed, 21 Oct 2009 14:49:05 +0000

"I do realize that the autism risk is for people 60 years younger than I: the infants exposed to multiple vaccinations who don’t have a fully developed blood-brain barrier."

There is no scientific evidence to support this. Speaking of rational discourse…

By: jazzbumpa

jazzbumpa — Wed, 21 Oct 2009 13:17:09 +0000

The plural of personal anecdote is not “data”.

I didn't contend that it was. And ridicule is not rational discourse.

Toxicity is based on the total amount of the toxin in your body, and the half life of mercury in your liver is essentially forever. There are other toxins, and a variety of allergy risks in vaccines. Also, not all vaccines have killled virus. Sometimes its only attenuated.

And where are they manufactured? What are the quality control measures?

I do realize that the autism risk is for people 60 years younger than I: the infants exposed to multiple vaccinations who don't have a fully developed blood-brain barrier.

The thing unmentioned here is efficiency. Is there hard evidence that the H1N1 vaccine actually works? Should we trust the experts on that as well?

Cheers!
JzB the neanderthal trombonist

By: Joanna

Joanna — Wed, 21 Oct 2009 03:22:39 +0000

"I can only drop my jaw & stare at parents who say they don’t 'believe' in vaccinating their children"

I'm a nanny, and the stupid I hear from moms at the park would melt your face off. "Well, you know, you hear so much out there about how bad they are…" Then I have to keep mine straight while one of my employers explains her decision to not vaccinate (so many chemicals!) and how I should administer homeopathic remedies (in which she's "a big believer"} if the kids get sick. This is also a woman who won't say the word 'sugar' around her kids because it's bad for them. She won't SAY the WORD. "Okay Joanna so you know they aren't allowed to have s-u-g-a-r…the chamomile drops are in the cupboard…see you at eight!" LOL I love money.