A student showed up to my final exam wearing a Genesis t-shirt, and he was wearing it non-ironically.
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The man really likes Genesis.
This floored me for several reasons. First, Genesis may be the worst band in the history of our species. It sounds like synth-pop sung by eunuchs. Second, I cannot recall having met someone who honestly liked Genesis with no irony or winking in at least 15 years. I am fairly certain that when I was in grade school, someone probably expressed a fondness for them.
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But that was long ago. Lastly, and most importantly, of the people remaining on Earth who like Genesis I was all but certain than none were under 40 as of 2006. The student in question appeared to be about 20.
This is all deeply troubling.
I didn't dare ask how much he liked Rush, mostly because I feared the answer that I knew would follow. How does a young person in this day and age, with a world of music at the end of his DSL connection, go so horribly astray?
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Perhaps I should call a social worker and report this young man as a victim of childhood musical abuse. Whichever parent exposed him to this stuff should be reprimanded harshly.
Dave says:
I work with a man who not only likes Genesis, he was given the job on the basis of his love of Genesis. I'm not joking. Think on that.
Samantha says:
Phil Collins is the anti-christ. And that guy from Journey is no better.
I was hanging out with some locals in Paris about 12 years ago, and this seemingly cool (up to this point, anyway) french girl asks me, "What ever happened to Supertramp?" I was baffled and told her so. She couldn't believe that, as an american, I didn't have some inside scoop on their disappearance from the music scene.
Greg says:
Well, I'll agree with your analysis of late-80s Genesis, but the early Genesis with Gabriel is indeed good stuff. But you have to have an ear and a taste for progressive rock and be a little patient with some of those early production values. I'm 37.
OM says:
You're an idiot. I bet you like the Shite Stripes and other hipster trash like that.
God forbid you listen to anything from the era when people actually cared about creativity.
Good job, loser, you are everything that is wrong with the music industry these days. Congratulations.
Ed says:
Yup, you nailed it – I'm a fuckin' White Stripes fanatic!
Nothing says "creativity" like using the same three Roland synth patterns in every song for 10 years.
erik says:
Uh, its not that I really endorse Ed's position on Genesis, however accusing him of being a White Stripes fan is rediculous. Particularly considering the fact that ginandtacos had a "music" section where you can see for yourself how Ed feels about music.
OM says:
Like I care about this fools views on music. I dont need to know what he listens to, to know his comments come from a place of ignorance and closemindedness (and probably a "healthy" dose of herd following).
Thats only reinforced by his further comments like "using the same three Roland synth patterns in every song for 10 years" which just shows that 1) this guy has not even listened to hardly any Genesis, because they certainly dont use the "same 3 synth patterns" to begin with. And 2) because Tony Banks for is one of the most respected and talented and tasteful keyboardists in the business, and also hardly ever used Roland gear.
Like I said, you are everything that is wrong with music today. It is people like you who suppress great music from getting the exposure and appreciation it deserves, while the crap proliferates in increasing quantity.
-h says:
wow. seriously, wow.
-h says:
wow. seriously, wow.
-h (sometimes BillyBobJoe) says:
Su-Su-Sussudio guys know why my previous comment got posted twice?…
Ed says:
Please take your man-crush on Phil Collins elsewhere. It's really not even remotely interesting.
OM says:
Oh, but you hating basically everything is? Get over yourself.
And I dont have a "man-crush" on Collins, but I do respect and admire him as a musician, considering he is one of the greatest rock drummers of the past 40 years (although he doesnt really show it much any more).
Personally, I prefer the Gabriel era stuff overall, but the trio version made some great pop music (some of the best of its time, certainly better than most of what was getting airplay in the 80s).
Do you like ANYTHING?
Please let us know what it is so we can all make fun of your inevitably crappy taste.
Rick says:
Ahh, internet anonymity… tell me, OM, are you shooting blanks yet? My opinion of breeding greatly depends on your answer…
It's all fun and games on the interweb until you read about something you disagree with…
arab* says:
From the original post: "How does a young person in this day and age, with a world of music at the end of his DSL connection, go so horribly astray? Perhaps I should call a social worker and report this young man as a victim of childhood musical abuse. Whichever parent exposed him to this stuff should be reprimanded harshly."
This is exactly how I feel about you.
arab* says:
From the original post: "How does a young person in this day and age, with a world of music at the end of his DSL connection, go so horribly astray? Perhaps I should call a social worker and report this young man as a victim of childhood musical abuse."
This is exactly how I feel about you.
AiretsyH says:
I really am amazed.
Im not much of a Genesis fan, I got bored of the more commercial Collins era music and Ive just never gotten into the older Gabriel material. But I know one thing… the quality of song writing is a million levels above what is written today.
Ed – you obviously seem to have a hatred for Genesis but have you really given them a try? Are you that close-minded that you have to write something up on here about something you unjustly dislike in order to get other people to blindly agree with you aswell?
Perhaps if you can tell us what exactly (in your opinion) is better than early Genesis, I have no doubt that myself and various others will be able to sit here and have a good laugh for a while.
Phil Collins says:
Your opinions are wrong.
OM says:
You'll no doubt be pleased to know that the level of my virility has never been in question.
But, unfortunately for you, I only like girls.
Mike says:
>Do you like ANYTHING?
> Perhaps if you can tell us what exactly (in your opinion) is better than early Genesis,
There's a whole section entitled "Music" on the left column, which is filled with CD reviews, many (most) written by Ed. Enjoy!
Rodney King says:
Can't we all just get along?
Samantha says:
wow. i had no idea there were still people out there who liked genesis so passionately! it's interesting that OM insists the era of musical creativity has passed, yet at the same time considers ed "close-minded."
Ed says:
I have been so thoroughly convinced by the compelling arguments of Genesis fans herein that I decided to take another listen.
You were right. How could I have questioned the greatness of the band that gave us "Illegal Alien"???
That is one awesome – and completely inoffensive – tune.
Rick says:
Ooh, a gay retort.
Read that sentence with emphasis on whatever you wish.
Nick says:
Dear OM,
First: Genesis fucking blows. I say that as someone who listens to everything from Vivaldi to Bad Religion to Aesop Rock to CCR to the Grateful Dead to Duke Ellington. I have listened to a lot of good music. Thus, I feel that I can give an informed opinion when I say that Genesis blows.
Second: In case you're forgetting, this is not your site. If you are offended by their analysis of Genesis' lack of talent, you can refrain from reading. I cannot fathom what makes people seek out opinions with which they disagree on the Internet and then get offended that someone posted them.
That's all.
Love, Nick.
Greg says:
Ed, "Illegal Alien" is certainly not Gabriel-era and is off an album that even Genesis fans consider fairly sub-par. Good example, man.
Nick, if people are going to post ignorant and smarmy negative comments about a band, they can in turn expect someone to find them and challenge them on those opinions. Are you really mystified by that kind of behavior? Really?
And Bad Religion and the Dead certainly give you a huge range of musical scope. I'll trust your opinion on music as much as the next armchair critic.
Rick says:
Such feisty interactions about musical taste…
I was pretty impressed when Aesop Rock was dropped… haven't heard that name in a couple years…
I don't think this argument will ever end… peacefully, anyway. People will vigilantly defend their musical tastes up to and including their first born. This is ridiculous. I listen to everything from Bad Religion to CCR to Clapton to The Decemberists to Green Day to Pete Yorn to Rammstein to System of a Down to John Hiatt to Radiohead to Poe to Muse to Weezer to Guster to Dropkick Murphys to The Bouncing Souls to Jimmy Eat World to Yellowcard to Thursday to Thrice to The Killers to The Clarks to Taproot to Rancid to Slaves on Dope to Lostprophets to Mushroomhead to Finger Eleven to Korn to Breaking Benjamin to Barenaked Ladies to Third Eye Blind to Maroon Five to Widespread Panic to Pearl Jam to Fiona Apple to Beastie Boys to American Hi Fi to Cake to Dave Matthews Band to Corrosion of Conformity…
This is just a smattering.
So if someone doesn't like Genesis, I can understand. However, if you like Genesis, don't shit on people who care not for their sound. It happens. Just like your conception.
Nick says:
Greg: I really am mystified, actually. I see no point in seeking out opinions with which you disagree solely for the purpose of being offended. Sure, Ed's original post wasn't exactly an essay on the musical qualities of Genesis; that wasn't the point. The point was that he didn't like Genesis, cause he thinks they suck. Why do you care? If you say that Bad Religion or the Dead suck, I won't agree, but I'm not going to throw a hissy fit about it, particularly if it's posted on your own fucking website.
Also, what differentiates an "armchair critic" from a legitimate critic? Both are just taking their experience of music and giving an opinion on what is good and what sucks. Your use of the term is a red herring and a failure as either an argument or an insult.
OM says:
"There's a whole section entitled "Music" on the left column, which is filled with CD reviews, many (most) written by Ed."
Again, I dont really care about this idiot's taste, but I did skim through those reviews and most of them equate to "this album sucks". And Im sure he can answer for himself. Surely with his "infinite wisdom" it shouldnt be hard to rattle of 5 or 10 or even 20 bands that he thinks are great. But unsurprisingly he has completely evaded the question.
"it's interesting that OM insists the era of musical creativity has passed, yet at the same time considers ed "close-minded.""
Indeed. Because it has. Im not closed off to the idea that good music could still be made, but in modern culture (or rather lack thereof), its increasingly unlikely. 30+ years ago, or even 10-15, creativity and adventurousness were still valued and desired qualities in mainstream music. That is no longer the case as more and more people become brainwashed slaves of corporate insterests, whose only goal is to push whatever profit horse they feel like pushing this week. Sure you still get some interesting fringe groups now and then, but without a large scene to support them there are naturally fewer of them and they are more obscure as a result (and not as good overall).
But anyone who thinks music now is as interesting and creative as it was say in the 70s (when Genesis was at their peak) is jsut fooling themselves. Or at the very least is completely clueless on music history.
"How could I have questioned the greatness of the band that gave us "Illegal Alien"???"
Nothing wrong with that song at all. Just a humourous little silly track, with a catchy almost "electro-tropical" sort of sound to it, and an interesting chord progression.
Anyway, Genesis has worse songs (maybe "Hold On My Heart"), but mainly a lot of much better ones. Stuff like Dancing With The Moonlit Knight, In The Cage, Lamia, The Knife, Musical Box, Dance On A Volcano, Mad Man Moon, Blood On The Rooftops,, etc… and even some of their later stuff like Dodo/Lurker, Turn It On Again (catchiest song in 13/8 ever), Tonight Tonight Tonight, Fading Lights, Dreaming While You Sleep, etc…
Of course, if you require your music in neat little "accessible" predigested chunks, then obviously a more intelligent and complex and multifaceted band like Genesis will not be for you.
"I say that as someone who listens to everything from Vivaldi to Bad Religion to Aesop Rock to CCR to the Grateful Dead to Duke Ellington."
Uhm, most of those arent very good. If you want to "prove" how "diverse" you are by listening classical, punk, hiphop, classic rock, and jazz, at least list GOOD examples of each of those. How about instead of Vivaldi (easy listening for pretentious people), how about Beethoven at least (or for something less on the nose, maybe Mussorgsky or Stravinsky)? How about instead of BR (ok but overrated), maybe some Black Flag or Dead Kennedeys? How about instead of CCR and GD, maybe some Led Zeppelin and Allman Bros (a far superiod jam band to GD at any rate)? and dont you think Ellington is a bit of a predictable choice for "token jazz musician"?
Why exactly do you think Genesis "blows"? Because they are not having their cocks sucked by all the "cool" magazines you probably read to get your entire personality from? BFD. Think for yourself, you might find you like it.
"I cannot fathom what makes people seek out opinions with which they disagree on the Internet and then get offended that someone posted them."
I didnt seek this out. I was pointed to it on a message board when someone posted about how ridiculous this guy was. So I figured I'd comment on how much of a fool he is.
"Nick, if people are going to post ignorant and smarmy negative comments about a band, they can in turn expect someone to find them and challenge them on those opinions. Are you really mystified by that kind of behavior? Really?"
Indeed.
"And Bad Religion and the Dead certainly give you a huge range of musical scope. I'll trust your opinion on music as much as the next armchair critic."
I hate sarcasm.
"So if someone doesn't like Genesis, I can understand. However, if you like Genesis, don't shit on people who care not for their sound. It happens."
I think you got this backwards. Its the ones who DONT like the band who are doing the shitting. Probably because they are full of it.
"what differentiates an "armchair critic" from a legitimate critic? Both are just taking their experience of music and giving an opinion on what is good and what sucks."
You answered your own question. Their experience is what differentiates them. Someone with clearly very little knowledge of and experience with music, such as the original poster, would be an "armchair" variety. Someone who has a good depth of knowledge and vast experience could be "legitimate".
Anyway, its typically the mark of a reasonable person to have much more moderate views that those expressed in the original post. Surely there are other bands which are much worse that deserve your antipathy more than a band who has put out many albums that are loved by millions of people, for good reason, with a wide range of music on them?
If you want a target for a totally pointless pop band that is actually in danger of getting more undeserved fans, pick on Blink 182 or something. But Genesis doesnt fit that bill.
OM says:
"There's a whole section entitled "Music" on the left column, which is filled with CD reviews, many (most) written by Ed."
Again, I dont really care about this idiot's taste, but I did skim through those reviews and most of them equate to "this album sucks". And Im sure he can answer for himself. Surely with his "infinite wisdom" it shouldnt be hard to rattle of 5 or 10 or even 20 bands that he thinks are great. But unsurprisingly he has completely evaded the question.
"it's interesting that OM insists the era of musical creativity has passed, yet at the same time considers ed "close-minded.""
Indeed. Because it has. Im not closed off to the idea that good music could still be made, but in modern culture (or rather lack thereof), its increasingly unlikely. 30+ years ago, or even 10-15, creativity and adventurousness were still valued and desired qualities in mainstream music. That is no longer the case as more and more people become brainwashed slaves of corporate insterests, whose only goal is to push whatever profit horse they feel like pushing this week. Sure you still get some interesting fringe groups now and then, but without a large scene to support them there are naturally fewer of them and they are more obscure as a result (and not as good overall).
But anyone who thinks music now is as interesting and creative as it was say in the 70s (when Genesis was at their peak) is jsut fooling themselves. Or at the very least is completely clueless on music history.
"How could I have questioned the greatness of the band that gave us "Illegal Alien"???"
Nothing wrong with that song at all. Just a humourous little silly track, with a catchy almost "electro-tropical" sort of sound to it, and an interesting chord progression.
Anyway, Genesis has worse songs (maybe "Hold On My Heart"), but mainly a lot of much better ones. Stuff like Dancing With The Moonlit Knight, In The Cage, Lamia, The Knife, Musical Box, Dance On A Volcano, Mad Man Moon, Blood On The Rooftops,, etc… and even some of their later stuff like Dodo/Lurker, Turn It On Again (catchiest song in 13/8 ever), Tonight Tonight Tonight, Fading Lights, Dreaming While You Sleep, etc…
Of course, if you require your music in neat little "accessible" predigested chunks, then obviously a more intelligent and complex and multifaceted band like Genesis will not be for you.
"I say that as someone who listens to everything from Vivaldi to Bad Religion to Aesop Rock to CCR to the Grateful Dead to Duke Ellington."
Uhm, most of those arent very good. If you want to "prove" how "diverse" you are by listening classical, punk, hiphop, classic rock, and jazz, at least list GOOD examples of each of those. How about instead of Vivaldi (easy listening for pretentious people), how about Beethoven at least (or for something less on the nose, maybe Mussorgsky or Stravinsky)? How about instead of BR (ok but overrated), maybe some Black Flag or Dead Kennedeys? How about instead of CCR and GD, maybe some Led Zeppelin and Allman Bros (a far superiod jam band to GD at any rate)? and dont you think Ellington is a bit of a predictable choice for "token jazz musician"?
Why exactly do you think Genesis "blows"? Because they are not having their cocks sucked by all the "cool" magazines you probably read to get your entire personality from? BFD. Think for yourself, you might find you like it.
"I cannot fathom what makes people seek out opinions with which they disagree on the Internet and then get offended that someone posted them."
I didnt seek this out. I was pointed to it on a message board when someone posted about how ridiculous this guy was. So I figured I'd comment on how much of a fool he is.
"Nick, if people are going to post ignorant and smarmy negative comments about a band, they can in turn expect someone to find them and challenge them on those opinions. Are you really mystified by that kind of behavior? Really?"
Indeed.
"And Bad Religion and the Dead certainly give you a huge range of musical scope. I'll trust your opinion on music as much as the next armchair critic."
I hate sarcasm.
"So if someone doesn't like Genesis, I can understand. However, if you like Genesis, don't shit on people who care not for their sound. It happens."
I think you got this backwards. Its the ones who DONT like the band who are doing the shitting. Probably because they are full of it.
"what differentiates an "armchair critic" from a legitimate critic? Both are just taking their experience of music and giving an opinion on what is good and what sucks."
You answered your own question. Their experience is what differentiates them. Someone with clearly very little knowledge of and experience with music, such as the original poster, would be an "armchair" variety. Someone who has a good depth of knowledge and vast experience could be "legitimate".
Anyway, its typically the mark of a reasonable person to have much more moderate views that those expressed in the original post. Surely there are other bands which are much worse that deserve your antipathy more than a band who has put out many albums that are loved by millions of people, for good reason, with a wide range of music on them?
If you want a target for a totally pointless pop band that is actually in danger of getting more undeserved fans, pick on Blink 182 or something. But Genesis doesnt fit that bill.
Nick says:
Okay then. How about Shostakovich, Sham 69, the Dillinger Four, King Oliver, and the String Cheese Incident, if we're going to play the "my bands are less popular than yours" game. None of which are "having their cocks sucked by all the 'cool' magazines," for the record (at least as far as I know; music magazines bore me). I think Genesis blows because I honestly do not think their music is pleasing to listen to, despite the fact that I think a lot of music is pleasing to listen to.
"Their experience is what differentiates them." Okay, how do you define "experience"? Number of albums listened to? Number of artists? Number of songs? Number of genres listened to or enjoyed? There's no definition of "experience" that makes one person more or less qualified than another to give an opinion on music.
As for it being "the mark of a reasonable person to have much more moderate views that those expressed in the original post," I suggest you go back and read your own original post in this thread.
Sure, there are worse bands than Genesis. But that doesn't make Genesis any better.
Nick says:
Also, I just reread your post and noticed that you said Bad Religion were overrated (probably true) and then suggested Black Flag as a lesser-known band.
What the fuck?
Ed says:
Wow. Genesis fan(s) certainly seem to have a lot of time on their hands. Shocking.