There is so much to say about bin Laden; in an effort to avoid devoting a week's worth of posts to the topic I am going to attempt to cover several points here at once.
1. The news of bin Laden's death excited me mostly because I couldn't wait to hear how Republicans were going to criticize Obama over it. Would it be that it took him too long? That he didn't decapitate the corpse and put it on a pike outside the Capitol? According to K-Lo, Obama isn't being sufficiently modest:
It is therefore unfortunate that Mr. Obama seems to want more than that fair share the American people will naturally and rightly give him. His remarks last night were far too much laced with words like "I met repeatedly," "at my direction," and "I determined," trying to take personal credit for the years of painstaking work by our intelligence community. Mr. Obama might have noted that this work began under President Bush, but as usual he did not.
Yeah, I suppose he should have been more humble. You know, the whole land on an aircraft carrier in a fucking flight suit to declare "Mission Accomplished" routine.
Republicans find credit-claiming spectacles immodest and distasteful.
2. To say that the public reaction was somewhat disturbing is an understatement. Watching Americans once again unironically become the people they demonize – remember those Palestinians dancing in the streets when the WTC fell? – was as predictable as it is gross. It was not our finest moment. I understand why people feel exhilarated or maybe even that we've had a rare moment of Collective Victory. Hooray, the evil bad guy is dead. I get that. But to what end? What are we celebrating in the streets like drunken late 1980s Detroit Pistons fans?
This reaction reminds me of hearing capital punishment advocates talk about how killing the Bad Guy brings "closure" and a lot of other polished up words that mean "revenge." The villain dies, you feel the juvenile thrill for a moment, and then you feel as empty as before – only more so, because now you can't tell yourself that revenge will make you feel better. I wouldn't say it's "wrong" to celebrate as much as it's just pointless. To me, the best gloating would come from putting him on trial. But that wouldn't have brought all of his victims back to life either.
3. So, uh, how 'bout our ally Pakistan? Good to know the world's most wanted man was hiding out 100 meters from a Pakistani military academy. Bang up job, fellas.
4. Now that the body has been disposed of, good lord can you comprehend the conspiracy theories we're going to have to endure for the next decade-plus? My god, they're going to make the 9/11 twoofers look sane in comparison.
5. The "Well, Obama has the election sewn up" meme betrays some ignorance. Eleven months before the 1992 election, George H. Bush was at 88% approval. The public opinion effects of this will be measurable and most likely temporary. Gas will be $4.50/gal by the 4th of July and bin Laden will be ancient history by then. I'm not saying this won't be a useful talking point or a source of long-term benefit for Obama, but beware the awesome ability of the American public to A) forget things almost immediately and B) refocus on economic issues to the exclusion of any others.
This is important, but it is important symbolically. Bin Laden was a sick old man who served as a figurehead but probably exercised little direct control over terrorist activities. Terrorism is a hydra; whenever a terrorist falls there are three more ready to replace him. The fact is that the world is not safer today than it was last week and the death of OBL isn't going to bring terrorism to a screeching halt. So, yay. "We got 'im!" and all that. But by the time the election rolls around the realizations sink in that this hasn't A) ended the war in Afghanistan or B) meaningfully reduced the threat of terrorism, Obama isn't going to be riding this to victory. The best thing about it from his perspective is having a great comeback ready when Republican presidential candidates try to call him "Soft on terror" or whatever.
6. Obama played the Birth Certificate thing pretty well after all. How petty and stupid does the GOP look now? Oh, I'm sorry guys. I was busy authorizing a mission to get that guy you've been chasing for nine years. But here's your precious birth certificate, since we know that's very important to you…
7. Raise your hand if your inbox and Facebook page filled up with crap like this over the past 24 hours.
Nom de Plume says:
Those Facebook reactions actually stunned me with their dumbness, and I say that as a veteran of viral emails from elderly people.
KDP says:
Reading those posts make me happy that I have pretty much abandoned FB in favor of Twitter. At least there I don't have to subscribe to a feed I hate just to be able to submit a response. On Twitter, I can engage in a conversation, or ignore those who won't.
I found the game day fervor over Osama's death to be distasteful. NO killing is worth of celebration. Justified, yes. I feel some comfort in knowing that no further deaths will be perpetrated by order of Bin Laden, but happiness and joy do not describe my emotions.
On a happier note, found out today that a Twitter friend from one of the worst hit areas is alive and well.
FMguru says:
"The fact is that the world is not safer today than it was last week and the death of OBL isn't going to bring terrorism to a screeching halt."
Except one of the things they reportedly hauled out of that mansion was a huge cache of computers and documents, probably including a huge amount of detail about the nuts and bolts of Al-Qaeda at the highest levels. Done properly (and Obama has shown he's pretty competent at this sort of thing – unlike Bush, who withdrew forces from Tora Bora on the verge of capturing OBL so they could get ready for Iraq), they should be able to roll up most of the AQ network over the next 12 months.
Eric O says:
That's a pretty good summary of things I wanted to tweet last night (right down to the hydra), but everyone was in such a good mood that I didn't want to be the downer. This wasn't the end but the beginning. While I can't get excited over anyone's death, I hope we can use this opportunity to each work toward a better world in whatever our individual capacity.
Gee, that's a lot of "I""s in the previous paragraph. Uh, really those thoughts wouldn't have been possible without the work of President George W Bush, whose disregard for a daily briefing laid the ground work for yesterday's events.
harmfulguy says:
I'm pretty sure most of the idiots whining about Obama taking too much credit for OBL's death have spend the last two and a half years blaming him for everything down to their grandmother's gout.
Turok says:
Well, I like his death because it proves that we can find ANYONE alive on the planet. No where is safe, and no more bullshit about Obama not handling the Middle East well. Republicans have been had at their own game.
eau says:
Geez, thanks for that facebook link, ed. Now I has a sad.
wetcasements says:
It's as simple as this — a supposedly "muslim" president accomplished what a supposedly "real" one (i.e., white one) couldn't.
Kind of funny watching the Republicans have to scrape up their brains from the floor.
Nice post.
Noskilz says:
The most interesting aspects to me are where Osama turned up and what the implications of that are. What might happen next just seems like it could be more important than Osama's death.
It may sound odd or foolish, but all the botched policies, security theater, and official overreactions have that followed 9/11 have left it hard for me to manage much more than indifference. The instigator may be dead, but those policies and screw-ups live on. Maybe with Osama's death, we finally have an excuse to wind down the security theater a bit, but probably not.
Or maybe there's just no pleasing me. Still, it seems like Obama did do a pretty good job of dealing with the birth certificate thing, and while I'm not too keen on the idea there was no interest in capturing Osama, that he was located by rather conventional, rather than "enhanced" means is a plus. It's also at least mildly amusing to see people who think Obama is some sort of alien pretender try to process that he managed something his predecessor could not.
I suppose my pessimism is due to thinking the barrier to entry in the terrorism game is rather low. If the information seized disrupts this particular groups operations significantly for a time, that's not a bad thing.
qmmayer says:
Reminds me of one of my favorite quotes from Going After Cacciato:
"What effect would Ho Chi Minh's death have on the population of North Vietnam?"
"Reduce it by one, sir."
thrashbluegrass says:
"Watching Americans once again unironically become the people they demonize
thrashbluegrass says:
well, okay, let's try this again…
"Watching Americans once again unironically become the people they demonize – remember those Palestinians dancing in the streets when the WTC fell? – was as predictable as it is gross."
This was exactly my reaction on seeing these displays. Time to pull out the overused-but-far-too-often-apropos:
"Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."
But, hey: "USA!", I guess.
Nunya says:
I've had the great privilege of working with some very bright people for the last 20 years. When I read things like those Facebook posts I shudder to think that this is the intellect of my average fellow citizen.
Excellent post, by the way. I am kind of mortified at the celebration of the death of another human being. I'm in no way sad that bin Laden is dead but gloating over it seems tacky at best.
Middle Seaman says:
It wasn't Mugabe or Stalin; it's only Osama. For some reason, too many think too much about a very small impact. Nothing will change in Al Qaida or the US and for very simple reasons. Osama didn't control a country; he was a leader of a self sustaining large and varied loose organization.
Since the impact of Osama's death is tiny, the Republicans are still Republicans, Obama is still the same Obama.
Next …
steve says:
Great post, Ed. You've characterized my ambivalence to a 't.'
Mr. Prosser says:
With regard to the yahoos cheering the death I thought of this. I don't remember the exact quote but Mark Twain once said something to the effect,"I've never wished for a man's death but I've read some obituaries with great satisfaction."
Joe Bauers says:
Love K-Lo's reaction. "Who does this uppity nigger think he is, anyway? The President of the United States?"
Andrew C says:
Jeez – he was 54, not elderly.
I know it seems at 30 that 54 is a long way away and all, but you will regret it if you push the idea that elderly means over 50.
Elderly people don't get re-employed. Ever. Don't encourage anybody to think of anything under 70 is old or you'll be paying the price too.
Doug says:
You can end all speculation about how the Tea Party will twist this, just look at those Facebook posts. All the conservative media needs to do is confuse the public about who was the real villain, Obama or Osama, and the election might as well be handed to Michele Bachmann right now.
Meredith says:
Could someone explain to me how burying the body at sea so quickly was a good idea? They must have known the nut jobs would use that for a plethora of conspiracy theories. What is the logic here?
By the way, I, too, felt unsettled about all the hoopla and celebrating after the announcement. Bin Laden was a toxic presence and the world is probably better for his demise, but the craziness was just inappropriate.
Sluggo says:
OBL's demise was swift, just and in a way merciful. Personally, I would have like to see him rot in a super-max for the next thirty years. He was a mass murderer and a criminal. Nothing more.
Agreed, the cheering was distasteful at best. It was all college kids who where cheering. Ten years ago, when these kids were grade schoolers, OBL was built up to be the bogeyman. There was a ton of fear mongering. He was someone that could kill them or their families at any moment.
Maybe if someone killed the bogeyman for me, I would cheer as well.
Hobbes says:
I actually didn't get any Facebook reactions like that, but my ultra-Christian aunt posted "Ding dong the witch is dead" earlier yesterday. I posted an independent statement later:
To which she responded "The Bible says not to take joy in your enemies death." I really want to ask her what she thought the munchkins were doing in Wizard of Oz, because that's really not a song of mourning and respect for the dead (at least not in the version I saw).
Kulkuri says:
You summed it up well.
If the election were tomorrow, Obama would win hands down, but it is still a year and a half until the election and anything could happen to throw it off.
How many number 2 Al Qaeda guys have they taken out in the last nine years??
John says:
I was pleased for about two seconds that Bin Laden was gone.
Then I recalled that the entire reason we cannot and will not ever "defeat terrorism" is because it is a decentralized structure, and the death of one man literally changes nothing. At *best*, he's now a martyr for his cause.
And then I thought about the wasted decade, and untold billions upon billions of dollars, and the transformation of the US into a pseudo-police state — all so that we could kill one decrepit old man who doesn't mean anything at all in the grand scheme of things.
And then I realized that people were *celebrating* this travesty. That they were cheering in the streets over the meaningless, inconsequential death of a single decrepit old man while their economy collapses, due in part to the resources and freedoms they squandered hunting him down over the past decade.
And then I got pretty fucking angry.
doug says:
Ed, nice post. OT I have housekeeping question. The 'Doug' that posted above is not me, unless I have been blacking out more than I realize. I assume your registration treats Capital letters different from lower case. Thus we have a "doug' and a 'Doug'?
oxus says:
The first quote is from a piece written by Eliott Abrams on the Council on Foreign Relations, not by Kathyrn Lopez. If anything this is more frustrating- one expects crap like this from the NRO, but I'd like to hold the CFR to a higher standard (but Abrams has never been afraid of delving into partisan hackery).
Brandon says:
I agree with your statement regarding the celebrations: "I wouldn't say it's "wrong" to celebrate as much as it's just pointless." But then you imply that it WAS wrong when you say Americans have become like the people celebrating in the aftermath of 9/11. I guess I just don't see a moral equivalence between celebrating the death of Osama bin Laden and celebrating the incineration of children on airplanes and thousands of ordinary people in the twin towers. And some might justifiably reply that Americans are hypocrites for criticizing the Palestinians dancing in the street after 9/11 while we blindly cheered on a unjustifiable war in Iraq that led to thousands of civilian deaths. That's a fair point, there is undeniably an ugly strain of bloodlust and jingoism in American society, not to mention a lack of concern for civilian casualties in Afghanistan and Iraq. But I just don't agree with your simple comparison of the two instances of celebrations. The rest of your observations were spot on.
Elder Futhark says:
There are a lot of cons behind the whole kill and destroy thing but the one pro I like is that it just leaves a little more oxygen for the normal folk, you know, the ones who don't have any weekend plans to kill other people.
And no, I didn't get any of those Facebook dipshittery, seeing as I am not one of those stupid little fuckface cockesuckers who gladly hands out his entire life history to private enterprise for free. Nor do I have a cell-phone-sized tumor on the side of my head. So there.
Having said all that, good riddance to that fucking stinky old man.
Da Moose says:
Please try to keep a lid on the "we're just as vulnerable today as we were before he was killed" rhetoric. It is this type of unintentional fear mongering that is slowly destroying the soul of this country. Try not to buy into that propaganda. Actually, I'd argue that, with the Arab Spring, we are perhaps safer now than at any time since just before the creation of Israel in ‘48. In other news, thought you might enjoy this read:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/01/books/review/book-review-in-the-basement-of-the-ivory-tower-by-professor-x.html
Zak44 says:
The economy wasn't GHW Bush's friend, but it wasn't the only reason he lost. Equally—if not more—damaging was the perception that he was out of touch and disconnected from the lives of ordinary Americans. Remember him marveling at a bar code scanner when he tried to come off like an ordinary Joe at the checkout line? Or impatiently glancing at his watch during one of the debates? Symbols like that did his image more damage than a truckload of pork rinds could remedy.
Elder Futhark says:
And Donald D-Bag Trump is proven to be just another annoying fly that's attracted to that big wet stinking turd others call the Republican Party. Geez, what's a white trash billionaire to do nowadays to get some R-E-S-P-E-C-T???
cromartie says:
What are we celebrating in the streets like drunken late 1980s Detroit Pistons fans?
If you're going to make a Detroit riot celebration reference, Ed, you need to use the 1984 Detroit Tiger violence. But I see someone is still bitter about all those years we held back the Jordinaires, ruining his childhood in the process. Bad Boys forever. (The 1990 Pistons celebration had a grand total of three arrests, btw.)
Geez, thanks for that facebook link, ed. Now I has a sad.
C'mon now. We all know the 30%ers are out there and, unfortunately, they've purchased computers too. But you have to give the guy who described Bin Laden as 'the world's greatest Hide and Seek player' props for a great line.
The economy wasn't GHW Bush's friend, but it wasn't the only reason he lost. Equally—if not more—damaging was the perception that he was out of touch and disconnected from the lives of ordinary Americans.
He alienated his base by raising taxes. The LA Riots didn't help matters. And none of the Republican candidates are shaping up to have Clinton's charisma or generational representation either.
ladiesbane says:
The bullet-point tango:
As Matt Bors put it, "CIA Employee Of The Month for June 1988 killed by their new employee of the month."
Item #1 = "Uppity!" — though he did use the first person singular to an unusual degree for any recent president. And yet the plural was sometimes seen as not taking personal responsibility for signaling fire. There is no win.
Pakistan: another partially U.S.-funded subdivision for terrorists. They fear India, for good reason, but they are corrupt as hell. And their religious extremism makes me see red. A Supreme Court that sanctifies the village-ordered gang rape of a woman whose 13 year old brother was accused of a crime has got to GO.
Did I really see Rush giving kudos? Or did that somehow get twisted?
People are loathesomely cheering for a murder? No, or there would be parties in the streets every day in this country. This death was a mile marker to getting over a tragedy, a road sign leading us home from war. For most of Bush's two terms, we were pumped full of fear of terrorism, and that fear was given a face and a name: bin Laden. Now that this specific fear has been laid to rest, people feel relief. Not everyone who's cheering is represented by those rotten FB posts from BuzzFeed.
Burial at sea? My practical nature wonders if the CIA still have the body on ice, or privately sent the body to Saudi (who publicly deny accepting it.) (Remember what was done to Mussolini's body?) Misleading the world might be smart. Issuing photos might quiet the conspiracy nuts, but inflaming the martyr-makers would be stupid. Still, PIX OR IT DIDN'T HAPPEN could become the new birth certificate demand.
Admiral_Komack says:
I'd add the media in point #6
Brandon says:
Ladiesbane: Andrew Sullivan has been following Rush's reaction. I think the consensus now is that what initially sounded like praise was actually sarcasm. Big surprise :-)
http://andrewsullivan.thedailybeast.com/2011/05/was-limbaugh-sarcastic-or-sincere-ctd.html
Admiral_Komack says:
I'd add the media in point #6 as being petty and stupid as well.
MSNBC was out there pimping The Donald, but the President got him in the end.
I would hope that the death of Osama Bin Laden ends ALL talk of President Obama's legitimacy as President, but I'm no fool; I never underestimate the stupidity of the American people.
I would like to thank:
President Barack Hussein Obama.
The men and women of the United States Military.
The intelligence community.
Thank you all for a job well done.
Sarah says:
I'm seeing this sort of crazy rejoicing and "unironically becoming the people they demonize" in some surprising media outlets. But, I'm also seeing a lot of reasonable reactions from my friends and family and online social network, which is refreshing.
Southern Beale says:
Don't know if anyone saw this picture:
http://twitpic.com/4simd5
I felt guilty laughing at it.
Southern Beale says:
I think the consensus now is that what initially sounded like praise was actually sarcasm.
Yes it was dripping, over the top sarcasm.
Rush is now and will always be a giant asshole.
John says:
@Admiral_Komack: "Thank you all for a job well done."
That's just it though. *It wasn't a job well done*. It was a job done with absolutely staggering incompetence.
Ten years, and more money than several hundred average American citizens *combined* will make *in their LIFETIMES*, to find and kill *one man*. A man who doesn't matter, and who's death accomplishes absolutely nothing.
I'm not saying he's a good guy, or that he shouldn't have died. What I'm saying is that celebrating an incomprehensibly ENORMOUS squandring of time and precious resources is ten different flavors of retarded.
If every single dollar spent hunting him was instead spent on fixing our massive economic issues at home — every bit of pay for every hour of every person involved with it, all of the maintenance on all of the military hardware involved, all of the money spent to power every piece of equipment dedicated to finding him — if ALL of that was spent somewhere more productive, where would we be now?
Hazy Davy says:
Succinct and right, as usual, Ed.
Ellie says:
Meredith –
"Could someone explain to me how burying the body at sea so quickly was a good idea? They must have known the nut jobs would use that for a plethora of conspiracy theories. What is the logic here?"
The one obvious answer is to get rid of the body as quickly as possible in a resonably respectful manner that will 1) prevent people from trying to find/dig it up for any nefarious reason, and 2) to prevent any kind of martyr's "shrine" at the burial or cremation site. Whisking it off to a ship and giving it Muslim rites and a "burial at sea" makes it "go away" quickly and for good, without doing anything overtly disrespectful that might backfire.
Or, you can go with Ladiesbane Says's CIA explanation.
Paul W. Luscher says:
1. I'm not sorry OBL's gone, but–at the risk of sounding sour grape-y–his death was an anticlimax, as far as I was concerned. He'd really been irrelevant for years–just a voice on a tape every now and then. He'd been sidelined by much bigger problems–which are still ongoing….
2. Don't call it "justice," unless you really think acting out the Code of 1870s Dodge City on an international scale is a good idea. Call it "vengeance." I'm OK with that. Nobody was more deserving of a bullet in the head. But don't call it "justice."That would have been putting him on trial and observing the due process of law we love to talk so much about.
3.The fratboy ("U-S-A! U-S-A!") nature of the "celebrations" gave me a headache. We didn't like it when the Arabs cheered the 9/11 deaths. Why is it OK for us to react to this with bloodthirsty glee? I get tired of people who act as if all this was just some Big Football Game.
Someone made the point that it was "no different than people cheering Hitler's death at the end of World War II." But I think there is a difference. People then were actually cheering the END OF THE WAR, and were relieved it was over, rather than going Full Metal Rambo over a targeted killing.
4. Well, in the end, Obama was more "cost-effective" than Two-Gun George and his gang. Did, WITH NO CASUALTIES, what W. & Co. couldn't do after ten years, two wars, thousands of deaths, and trillions of dollars.
A shame Obama wasn't elected President in 2000. Might have spared us the agony of the last decade.
Dave says:
So, you're happy that bin Laden is dead, and it's important symbolically, but it must not be celebrated? Am I missing something?
Jen says:
Can someone explain some of the wingnuts claiming OBL being dead for several years? Maybe someone is better in sleuthing than I am but the few sites I can find are really crackpoty.
mothra says:
Yeah. Reason #3,587 why I am not on Facebook. I don't need more shit in my life.
But you forgot the other "bonus" from the bin Laden news: torture works! Yea! At least that's what the right wing is strutting around about–never mind that KSM allegedly gave the courier's nickname up, what SIX YEARS AGO? So much for that ticking time bomb scenario…
Southern Beale says:
He'd really been irrelevant for years–just a voice on a tape every now and then.
Umm … well, if you know anyone who lost someone in the 9/11 attacks, or know anyone who signed up with armed forces in the aftermath of the 9/11 attacks for the specific goal of finding those directly responsible, then you would know that OBL was far from irrelevant to those folks. And there are a lot of them.
HoosierPoli says:
Now that we got our guy, I think we need to get the fuck out of the way and let the Arab democracy movements do what a million Navy SEALS never could: kill the NEED for terrorism.
Paul W. Luscher says:
Dave,
Said I'm not sorry he's gone, but I didn't say I was gonna celebrate his death. No "U-S-A! U-S-A!," beer-swilling, or boob-flashing for me, thank you.
He was a pretty rotten person, but I really don't think anyone's death is a reason for "HEY, LET'S PARTY HARD!!!"
Like I said above, we didn't like it when the Arabs did the happy dance after the Towers came down, and I don't think two wrongs make a right.
Southern Beale: Good point.
But, yeah, I think in some way OBL faded into the background once we stepped into Iraq and Afghanistan.
Unfortunately 9/11 got used by certain powers for purposes that had nothing to do with getting Osama Bin Laden. And, as we know now, if those certain powers had been on the ball in the weeks before 9/11, none of this need ever have happened.
It was the one thing that bothered me: the way the War On Terror became a war of empire.
Dave says:
No "U-S-A! U-S-A!," beer-swilling, or boob-flashing for me, thank you.
As with all other things, one ought not let the effusions of frat boys dictate the aesthetic tenor of a national event.
Paul W. Luscher says:
Guess my attitude is not "party hard!", but a sigh of relief that he's gone….
I'm hoping that it might mean that we could start working on undoing the damage that the last ten years have done to this country.
I'd "like my country back"–the one that existed before 9/11, if at all possible….
Some Guy says:
Well, I like his death because it proves that we can find ANYONE alive on the planet. No where is safe,
I guess I should be happy that bootlicking servility to totalitarianism isn't exclusive to the right wing?
Sammy says:
I did a count. Mr. Obama referenced "I" or "my" or "me" seven times in the subjective, seven times in the objective. He mentioned "us", "we", "our" and "Americans" 52 times. So much for the "I, I, I" theory. Gosh, facts are fun.
Xynzee says:
My personal meme for this has been: Chuck Norris just got back from Pakistan. He was watching Obama do it w a paring from his little finger.
Pluck says:
my personal favorite is " yay we killed saddam"
Ike says:
I was on facebook as the announcement was made, and was appalled at the posts by many of my friends and acquaintances. Talk around the watercooler involves nerd-worshiping of Navy SEALs and such. Blegh!
Scott says:
This is why I have culled my "friends" on facebook to about 30-35. If a "friend" regularly posts stupid or ignorant things, they're gone. I have no patience for that. My real friends share my political views, or failing that, are thoughtful about the ones that differ from mine.
Honestly, do any of you have 500+ friends? Or is that number mostly people you met once and looked to see if they were on facebook? If it's the latter, can you really be surprised that a seemingly random group of people contains a significant number of trolls?
Arslan Amirkhanov says:
You know what will really piss you off? Knowing that the Russian intelligence services once killed a major terrorist leader in Chechnya(an Arab volunteer like Bin Laden no less) by sending him a letter laced with some kind of contact poison. They sent him a FUCKING LETTER.
Brandon says:
"Honestly, do any of you have 500+ friends? Or is that number mostly people you met once and looked to see if they were on facebook?"
Scott: Yes, I'm an insanely popular person :-) Honestly, though, I can't say all of my friends share my political views. I wouldn't want that to be the case. Plus, I have some wingnut family members with whom I'm friends on FB. So, I get a steady diet of posts that make me pause and shake my head. But it's really not a big deal for me, as it seems to be for you. In fact, I often get a kick out of it.
Brandon says:
"We didn't like it when the Arabs cheered the 9/11 deaths. Why is it OK for us to react to this with bloodthirsty glee?"
Because, as I mentioned above, it's a flawed comparison.
Xynzee says:
@Arslan: I often forget that while the Russians(Soviets) didn't give a fig abt public opinion polls and handled diplomacy with the subtleties of TNT — "Oh so you want to stand up to us? Roll in the tanks and fire away! What do you say now? >sound of falling bricks n mortar< Thought so"! Or an ice pick through the skull — they are capable of incredible finesse when they want to. They are the world leaders in ballet after all.
OT- while we've been looking at the spectacle, anyone been paying attention to them picking our pockets?
Robet says:
One of my sisters posted the 'don't thank Obama for this – it was all the US Military!' message on my FB wall.
I was sincerely tempted to defriend her.
David says:
My aunt did the same thing Robet. I responded with "Saying Obama doesn't deserve credit because he didn't fire the shot is like saying Osama wasn't responsible because he didn't fly the planes."
Honestly I don't understand what so many on the right hate Obama so much. If anyone has reason to be pissed us we liberals who voted for candidate Obama only to have president Obama govern far to the left of how he campaigned. How centrist does a Democrat need to be for right-wingers not to bash him? I know some of it is probably due to race however they hounded Clinton for 8 years non-stop. Both governed from the center (or even right-center) yet both were called socialists/communists. Seriously wtf do these people want and what the hell did the Republican party ever do for them to make them love it so fervently?
David says:
Wow sorry but I didn't preview before I posted. Corrections to the above…
Honestly I don't understand why so many on the right hate Obama so much. If anyone has reason to be pissed it's we liberals who voted for candidate Obama only to have president Obama govern far to the right of how he campaigned. How centrist does a Democrat need to be for right-wingers not to bash him? I know some of it is probably due to race however they hounded Clinton for 8 years non-stop. Both governed from the center (or even right-center) yet both were called socialists/communists. Seriously wtf do these people want and what the hell did the Republican party ever do for them to make them love it so fervently?
Robert Waldmann says:
" can you comprehend the conspiracy theories we're going to have to endure for the next decade-plus?" Don't worry. It will all quiet down as soon as Obama releases Osama's long form death certificate.
Xynzee says:
@David: "…what the hell did the Republican party ever do for them to make them love it so fervently?"
They've been better at encapsulating and telling their narrative. While the Left thought "we've won the battle, next project", and/or 'X' can't/couldn't happen here/again, so we don't have to worry about that.
Arslan Amirkhanov says:
"I often forget that while the Russians(Soviets) didn't give a fig abt public opinion polls and handled diplomacy with the subtleties of TNT — "Oh so you want to stand up to us? Roll in the tanks and fire away! What do you say now? >sound of falling bricks n mortar< Thought sso"! Or an ice pick through the skull — they are capable of incredible finesse when they want to. They are the world leaders in ballet after all."
Khattab was killed sometime around 2002-3. What's this about "Soviets"?
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