NPF is ready to go but I couldn't resist bumping it in light of the vice-presidential debate on Thursday evening. Rather than making any attempts at analysis (If your post-debate spin is Mitch McConnell whining about the moderator, you just got your ass kicked. What more is there to say?) all I want to do is come up with analogies for what we saw on that stage last night. In politics, I can't think of a debate that ended with one person being that thoroughly humiliated when that person was not named Dan Quayle. Here I will try to list ass beatings as lopsided and complete as the one Paul Ryan just received:
– That one Super Bowl that the 49ers won 55-10, where the game was effectively over 10 minutes into the first quarter. (Honorable Mention: The 1985 Bears clobbering New England 46-10)
– Mike Tyson vs. Marvis Frazier. Or Michael Johnson. Or Michael Spinks. Or Robert Colay. Or basically anyone he fought before he went to prison and completely lost his mind.
– BluRay vs. HD DVD (Honorable mention: DVD vs. DIVX Disc)
– The Battle of Cold Harbor, American Civil War (Honorable mention: Henry V at Agincourt)
– Man vs. Nature
– Pepsi vs. New Coke
– The one guy who kept fighting WWII for Japan until 1974 vs. the entire world
– Crops vs. locusts (Honorable mention: Cane toads vs. Australia)
That could not have gone worse for Paul Ryan unless he pulled out a Koran and the severed head of Michael Phelps and thrust them both toward the camera. Unfortunately it won't matter much, as is usual for the debates. Nonetheless, it will replace Romney/Obama I as the topic for the grist mill over the next few days and it gave us this excellent excuse to think of metaphors for getting the crap beaten out of you.
Spiffy McBang says:
Ronda Rousey vs. anyone else her size
Everybody vs. the '08 Lions
Any Terminator vs. a prison full of guards
The Onion vs. "actual journalists"
J. Dryden says:
Agreed on the beat-down, though the media is already calling it "a draw" for reasons of what I can only assume is a desire to pretend that "style" is as much of a category as "substance" (which is understandable, as it's the only category they themselves bother with anymore.) When people who are paid for their opinions start asking questions like "Was Biden *too* aggressive in challenging Ryan's falsehoods?", I stop paying attention and start drinking heavily.
Raddatz impressed me. Never have I seen a moderator come so close to stating outright "Stop fucking around and answer the question–and no, you can't just make the same noise about 'values'–answer the goddamned question." As a result, holy shit did Paul Ryan have nothing to say about why we should vote for his ticket. Plenty of reasons, to be sure, why we shouldn't vote for Obama–why, he'll give you a list and a half of those–but pinned down for what Romney will do rather than "not be Obama," he had shockingly little to say. And we really have Raddatz to thank for that. (And when Biden pushed her, she pushed back–and good for her.)
The Veep debate should matter, if only because these men represent the largest piece of evidence of the decision making of the presidential candidates. Judging by what was said tonight, Ryan is proof of a severe hollowness to the Romney vision–a limited ability to criticize the actions of others without being able to suggest an alternative. Plus, Biden is always good entertainment. "A bunch of stuff"–oh, Joe–you caution, you.
Daniel says:
I love how Biden wouldn't budge one inch to Ryan's cavalcade of horseshit. Ryan simply doesn't have much to say about anything. At least Palin could wink and shit. I mean, this Ryan guy barely registers on the personality scale.
FMguru says:
8th Air Force vs. Dresden
Danthelawyer says:
Hey J. Dryden: I agree with you almost completely. But let's not forget that not being someone is worth something. After all, Obama got the Nobel Prize for peace for not being dickwad George Bush.
Oh, and Raddatz's last three questions were incredibly lame. Even my 13-year-old kid thought so.
Xynzee says:
Enola Gay v Hiroshima
Sadly, despite having his arse handed to him in its subatomic component pieces after being beaten w/ a sack of potatoes* Quayle's ticket still won.
He appears to be the template by which future GOP Veeps would be created from. Except for Shrub, but there Cheney was the power.
The only way Ryan could have saved himself was to start blubbing like a preschooler for his pacifier.
*if you know, you were there(ish).
Arslan says:
Bliztkrieg vs. Denmark.
ANZACs vs. Gallipoli.
1914 Austrian infantry officer vs. sniper or any soldier with a functioning rifle who is not blind. (Seriously, wearing a yellow sash with a shiny scabbard with your bluish 'pike-grey' uniform wasn't a brilliant idea.)
Pre-WWII soldiers vs. disease.
As for Obama's performance, maybe you can liken it to the Battle of Karansebes(1799 IIRC), where the Austrian army managed to fight, and defeat, itself.
Talisker says:
Man vs. Nature? Seriously?
Allow me to introduce you to Nature's enforcer, Global Warming.
After that, I'd like you to meet all the men who took on Nature, shot some lions, tigers and bears, and subsequently died of old age. Nature got them in the end.
Middle Seaman says:
Hillary vs Obama
The media has long ago decided that Ryan is a force of nature, a real intellectual financial brave heart fighting the deficit and the whole system. They were, are and will be full of it. Yesterday, they declared the debate a draw. They wouldn't let the balloon pop.
Biden/X in 2012!
buckyblue says:
Nazis v. Commies at Stalingrad. Wait, that one works both ways.
Major Kong says:
Oh come on now. I'm sure Bambi got in a few hits on Godzilla.
anotherbozo says:
I just turned off CNN, as it reported polls that recorded big wins for Ryan. Well, something like 49-44. I knew I'd find sanity somewhere, and glad Ed felt well enough to inject his.
As for Biden, I hadn't heard him other than at the Dem Convention and assorted press soundbites (usually to target a gaffe), and I was impressed. I kept thinking about Rudy Giuliani's sneer last week that he didn't think Biden was "that smart." Au contraire, asshole. Shove it up your sununu. If any of those hundreds of would-be assassins ever got to Obama, I'd be very comfortable with Biden taking the reins.
Both Sides Do It says:
I think Giuliani's definition of "smart" for a politician is "how much graft and perks you can feather your own nest with". And on that score Biden is clearly lacking. He's been in the Senate for a thousand years; he should be riding around on a golden chariot with topless Delaware virgins feeding him grapes. Giuliani was a fucking mayor and he still had all kinds of hideouts for his mistresses and his security detail running errands for him and on and on, all on the public's dime. No wonder he thinks Biden's an idiot.
Doctor Couth says:
Man beats boastful younger man half to death with one hand after boastful younger man picks on the weak and gullible? Seen that movie before.
http://youtu.be/Yh-S4m7tMD8
c u n d gulag says:
It was like Hawkeye and Trapper v. Frank and Margaret in M.A.S.H.
Biden killed Ryan so bady in the debates, that I suspect Mitt is gathering Mormons to start baptizing his running mate.
Sluggo says:
@Kong: My favorite film!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpBkc2jK-6w
Isaac says:
If Mitt Romney came over to my house for dinner, he'd probably say a bunch of nice things and at the end of the night I'd be telling myself that he isn't such a bad guy. It would be hollow and awkward but he'd eat whatever we put on the table and not steal the towels.
If Paul Ryan came over to my house I'd be like, "get off my property you pervy, fake, salesman person, before I let my dogs eat you."
Sluggo says:
I may have voted for Biden in 88, if he still was in the primary at that point, I don't remember.
I think Paul Ryan did the best that he could, considering he brought a butter knife to a bazooka fight, Joe Biden clearly just had too much life experience, passion and intellect and simply overwhelmed him.
Paul Ryan did not strike me as a snake or a weasel, but simply as a guy that bought into this right wing nonsense that has been floating around for the last forty years. Unfortunately, he is so deeply vested in this ideology, that he can't see anything else. Too bad, he might have done something with his life otherwise.
Sluggo says:
@Isaac
Mitt Romney wouldn't come over to your house for dinner. He would steal it from you with the most expensive fountain pen you have ever seen, and then load your dogs on top of his car.
Kulani says:
@anitherbozo Apparently, that same CNN poll showed a massive win for Biden among uncommitted voters…like 50-30'ish. So, that's not so bad.
Dookie says:
Clearly a draw…which is a slight win for Biden given the low expectations. As long as Biden didn't pull his pants down and wag his penis at Ryan he would have been seen as exceeding expectations.
He did deliver what liberals wanted to see though…which is why there is such a disconnect among the far left, as demonstrated with Ed's post today and the comments, with the polls that indicated a draw or marginal win for Ryan.
I think in the long run this will help Ryan, if not the current republican ticket. He came accros as credible and much more likeable than Biden. In the end how you saw this debate depended almost entirely on your political leanings going into the debate, unlike the first presidential debate which was a clear win for Romney.
acer says:
Jay-Z v. Nas
Boogie Down Productions v. Juice Crew
50 Cent v. Cam'ron
Eminem v. Benzino
Ice Cube v. NWA
bb in GA says:
"Get off my lawn" – J Biden
Assuming re-election of the O/B team – Biden appears to be blaming the State Dept and the Intelligence Community for the Libyan mess.
If the Admin decides to take on the permanent bureaucracy – they will not go down easy. Expect a major pissin' contest.
On a darker note – if you cross the Intel guys sufficiently…
//bb
bb in GA says:
@cund
"Biden killed Ryan so bady in the debates, that I suspect Mitt is gathering Mormons to start baptizing his running mate."
Besides being lame bigot humor…
I have studied LDS practice enough to know that they do not baptize dead people. They have a substitute baptism FOR the dead to get them right w/ God per their belief system.
Unless you meant they would raise Ryan from the dead which would indeed be a miracle as noted in the Christian Bible.
Either way…Fail
//bb
JohnR says:
"topless Delaware virgins" Oh, man – biting my tongue so hard right now. Admittedly, being a MD-er I may have a somewhat biased view of Delawarians, but I think you'd probably be better off going for WV in that category. Or Arkansas. At any rate, I'm not surprised that so many people decided that Ryan pulled out a "draw". That's the world we're living in, where anything becomes real if you believe it hard enough or say it often enough. I'd say that Ryan clearly knew nothing except platitudes, and was mostly wrong about them, and he gave every impression of a smarmy little weasel, but then of course I'm not ideologically required to see him as a Brilliant Wonk. Those who are cannot have him fail, so he must not have failed, ipso facto.
SeaTea says:
I know this is some kind of well-known phenomenon, but I literally just found out last night that my great-great-great-grandfather fought in the Battle of Cold Harbor. He was in the 14th New York Heavy Artillery, Co. E. What an odd thing to see it brought up first thing the next morning.
sluggo says:
Hey bb!
Did you know that Mitt Romney believes that marriage should be between one man and a whole bunch of women!
'rimshot'
bb in GA says:
@sluggo
have a great weekend…I just have one wonderful wife.
//bb
mothra says:
I have studied LDS practice enough to know that they do not baptize dead people. They have a substitute baptism FOR the dead to get them right w/ God per their belief system.
I am not c u n d gulag, but I am not sure I see the distinction here. If you mean that the Mormons don't take corpses and dunk them in water, well, yes, you're right. But a substitute baptism IS basically a baptism in their eyes–it's so they can make everyone a Mormon–even those who resisted the numerous earnest attempts by their missionaries during their lifetimes.
mel in oregon says:
that biden is far more honest & intelligent than ryan & that he won the debate if your iq is above 74 is obvious. so what! real clear polls show romney ahead in 7 polls, obama in 1, & 1 tie. so i don't think happy days are here again for obama supporters just yet. obama certainly did himself no favors when he said his & romney's position on ss & medicare are very close. way to energize your base, dunce! remember obama promised "change we can believe in". some change, he appointed geithner as sect of the treasury, summers as head of his council of economic advisors, & immelt as his jobs czar. all wallstreet lackeys, & very much responsible for the meltdown of the economy & subprime mortgage castastrophy. not to mention bernanke left in as fed chief. fdr would have had bernanke's head on a pole 20 minutes after taking office. so in spite of the fact joe b says some good things, obama is definitely in real trouble as is america. go ahead & have a party because of joe's good performance. just remember you are probably going to have 8 years of the morons romney & ryan.
JazzBumpa says:
@ Sluggo –
"simply as a guy that bought into this right wing nonsense that has been floating around for the last forty years. Unfortunately, he is so deeply vested in this ideology, that he can't see anything else. "
It is not at all clear to me this differs in any significant way from a pretty good practical description of a snake and a weasel.
Most especially when said guy inherited one fortune, married another and has never had a real job since high school.
Oh, and BTW, that Joe Biden was really mean; so the lying, empty platitude spouting zombie-eyed granny-starver must have won. Or at least tied. Or maybe didn't look THAT much like Eddie Munster.
JzB
JazzBumpa says:
@ mel –
I guess that explains why he doesn't have much of a record to run on.
In all seriousness, there is basically one reason for Obama's limited success: his economic policies have been too meek and too conservative (in every sense of the word.)
Well, 2 if you count Rethug obstructionism.
JzB
Daniel says:
If anyone thought that Ryan somehow "won" this debate, you are simply living in another dimension. He got beat down like a jobber laying down for Hulk Hogan on a Tueday night non-televised match in Spokane. This wasn't even a contest. This was Paul Ryan being completely out of his element against a seasoned veteran. The Beady-Eyed one had no answer for anything. That's because he has no ideas. None.
Sarah says:
Absolutely, although to be honest I can't really ream them about it. They've done a lot for genealogy researchers (my aunt was able to find my patrilineal line going back over 400 years because of their efforts) and I don't really buy the baptism by proxy (or baptism in person, for that matter) horse shit anyway. Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no substitute for a good blaster at your side!
And I just love how bb gets all bent out of shape about some guy who has zero power badmouthing xianity (a religion whose members have done a lot to oppress and murder many people in two millennia) on a blog, while saying absolutely nothing about the fact that a man who could conceivably become President of the United States is a racist shitbag.
Ed says:
I see why people might get offended about the "baptism of the dead" or whatever, but it seems like a total non-issue to me. Either their religion is total hokum, in which case their words and actions affect neither the living nor the deceased one bit, or they are right, in which case they're doing us a favor I guess.
I think the former is more likely.
Major Kong says:
@Dookie
In my book the "far left" are the 5 Maoists that show up to our local Community Festival every year.
Despite the cries of "Most liberal President evah!" from the right, Obama has mostly governed to the right of Nixon.
Meanwhile I doubt you could find much daylight between the John Birch Society and the Texas State GOP platform these days.
I guess when you're so far out in right field that you had to knock a hole in the wall to exit the ballpark – everything looks "far left" to you.
Sam240 says:
Arbroath 36, Bon Accord 0 (Scottish Cup, 12 September 1885)
Dundee Harp 35, Aberdeen Rovers 0 (Scottish Cup, 12 September 1885)
Australia 31, American Samoa 0 (World Cup Qualifier, 11 April 2001)
From cricket: Glastonbury 86, Langport 0 (1913).
86 is a low score, but how does a cricket team finish with 0 runs?
If you have to go with boring gridiron, there's the 1940 NFL Championship game:
Chicago 73, Washington 0.
hawiken says:
I've heard a rumor that Mitt is thinking about getting out of the public eye and opening a little mom and mom and mom and mom and pop convenience store.
Bernard says:
yep, ideology does influence everything. Too bad Biden can't be the Pres and Obama the Veep. at least with Rmoney we get the real thing. Obama is just a Southern Democrat with darker skin. lol. sucking up to the Republicans is not a sign of intelligence. at least if you have intelligence you know the difference. Ignorance is bliss they say. most Americans don't have an IQ capable of thinking or seeing such lies and enjoying getting screwed by Right wing ideology, those who vote right anyway, at least.
the right has no fact based reality. The Right is all "Faith Based" mythology nowadays, at least from my reading of their "facts." Science is such a nasty thing for the Right, debunking all their "facts".
Ryan or anyone who believes in Ayn Rand is so far to the right of Pluto, he missed Uranus on his way into Never Never Land. Communism/Fascism, whatever you call Authoritarian Dictatorships is not a humane concept. too bad we have to suck up to Obama and his Right wing ways. but i often forget Obama is a lefttwing socialist muslim usurper.
to think Ryan's family made their money off of Government Road building contracts. the smarmy lying sack of potatoes that is Republicanism, aka Government for me, but not for thee!.
as one Republican said on the Jon Stewart show, only Defense related Government is "Government" worth having.
every other kind is "Socialism". Ah to be stupid and ignorant like the rest of the Republican voters. now that would help me through the Decline and Fall of the American Republic.
Xynzee says:
@Daniel: "The Beady-Eyed one had no answer for anything. That's because he has no ideas. None."
It's not that Ryan has no ideas. He was doing what every extremely religious zealot does when faced with an inevitable annihilation. He was praying that his god would show up and smite the infidel – hoping that they're not standing to close when the lightening strikes.
Alas and alack for Ryan, Ayn stayed firmly fixed and mouldering in her grave.
Greydog says:
Raddatz was very good, but I was surprised to hear her repeat a piece of right-wing dogma as though it were revealed truth: "Both Medicare and Social Security are going broke…" Ryan, of course, agreed immediately, and Biden didn't correct her, although he certainly knows better.
It just ain't so.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/oct/12/raddatz-debate-objectivity
http://www.cjr.org/swing_states_project/medicare_bankruptcy_cnn_gets_i.php
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/a-bipartisan-foul-medicare-is-going-broke/2012/09/20/7237057e-0373-11e2-91e7-2962c74e7738_blog.html
Andrew says:
"Either their religion is total hokum, in which case their words and actions affect neither the living nor the deceased one bit"
I think that, while there's no physical change to anything, the total lack of respect it shows is relevant.
Therese says:
A "Southern Democrat with darker skin"? Did Shiela Jackson Lee, Sanford Bishop, Sam Jones, John Lewis, Cedric Richmond, Alvin Brown, GK Butterfield, Alcee Hastings, and Harvey Johnson, Jr. change parties, or are they all not black enough as well?
Sam240 says:
How about the Anglo-Zanzibar War?
It began at 9:02 a.m. on 27 August 1896, and ended at 9:40 a.m. that same day with a decisive British victory over Zanzibar's Sultan Khalid bin Bargash, causing the latter to seek refuge in the German consulate.
Carrstone says:
I also believe that Obama will be re-elected but, after Biden's gratuitous smirking and rude interrupting, I'm ashamed to be in the same camp. Whatever happened civility (remember Obama at the time of Giffords?), cogent argument and the First Amendment?
Having read your rancorous piece, Ed, you obviously are not trying to convince anyone of your point of view, you're playing to the same gallery of dolts as Biden, a gallery who prefer form over content and happily parrot whatever you say.
Shame on you, and you always inferring what an educated man you are!
Major Kong says:
If Ryan had done it you'd be saying how he was "forceful" and "commanding".
Sarah says:
Fixed that for you!
Xynzee says:
Fox News: Democrat Bludgeons Puppy to Death!
NYT: Rabid Dog Put Down After Threatening Elderly!
Is that what you meant?
Bernard says:
you mean to say that not all Southern Democrats are Blue Dogs?. what a leap? Mr. Manchurian Candidate/Obama who really only cares gutting Social SEcurity and Medicare, if Obama remarks in the debate about Social SEcurity are any cue. what does their skin color count when it comes to thieves??. lol i only discriminate on account of their ulterior motive. there are more than enough people of lighter skin involved here, those are the main ones who got us in this "pickle." having darker skin only helps Obama in his scam on blacks. we whites have all those white Southern Democrats and Northern/Western Democrats ones, in name only, as well. Blue Dog traitors, no matter their skin color. now they do have darker skinned Blue Dogs, lol,too. that's their business as well. Selling out the 99% is their game. Selling out is a Equal Opportunity Affair, knowing only the color of GREEN.$$$$ lol.
I personally have Mary Landrieu, a very white Skinned Blue Dog traitor as my Senator. Also have Dave Vitter, the prostitute's mark, but he's already on the 1% side anyway, being a tried and true Republican.
just shows Obots are fiercely loyal, just like the Rmoney bots. watching the Blacks get screwed by Obama, well, what can i say. Sad, really sad. those who vote for Obama for his skin color are just as bad as those who vote for Rmoney for his skin color, aka Southern Repubilcans. equal stupidity equals equal screwing. Putting the White back in the White House is a popular T shirt, i gather.
Watching the Whites in the South get screwed by Democrats turned Republicans/ starting with George Wallace/Lee Atwater/Ronnie Reagan the Great?/ is enough history to know stupidity and blindness are not solely based on color/or the lack thereof. it is interesting to see such behavior by non Republicans though. kind of thought the "others" would learn something from such Communistic/Rightist authoritarian ignorance. the "joys" of the willful ignorant are there for the explaining.
ah the American Dream. to have your own (fill in the blank) President screw you. Black or white, each according to their desired color. We really have "progressed." haven't we? Animal Farm indeed.
mary says:
nice post
Carrstone says:
@Major Kong
If Ryan had done it, I would have been ashamed FOR him, but he didn't, did he?
@Sarah
Well done, how clever of you! Student of the bon-mot, are you? Go talk to Debbie W-S for pointers… or bleach your teeth like Biden so that you too may shine.
Are you and Major Kong designated cheerleaders of Ed's claque or are you just self-appointed amateurs? As if I care …
Major Kong says:
Ryan did far worse if you recall his "car crash" anecdote. IOKIYAR
Xynzee says:
Kong! Stop feeding the troll!
Sarah says:
You're absolutely right. But I can't help thinking that if I/we got that kind of a rise out of him there was some truth to what we said to him.
Besides sometimes it's kind of fun to watch a stupid fucker like him flail about incoherently.
Major Kong says:
Sorry. My bad.
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