UNHEEDED WARNINGS

Recently, Rhode Island and Minnesota brought the number of states in which gay marriage is legal to an even dozen. In doing so, they chose not only to thumb their nose at thousands of years of traditional marriage and the Judeo-Christian roots of American society, but they also chose to ignore some alarming evidence from the ten states that legalized gay marriage before them.

Take Maryland, for example. It legalized gay marriage in 2012, effective January 1, 2013. As we near the end of May, we can see clearly the consequences of that decision. Take a look at these sobering statistics for 2013:

– 94% of straight married couples in Maryland have gotten divorced
– More than 7,000 man-dog marriages have been performed statewide
– In place of the Pledge of Allegiance, Maryland children now begin the school day with a three-minute pulsing techno beat
– Baltimore's Basilica of the Blessed Virgin Mary – the first Roman Catholic Cathedral built in the U.S. – has been converted to a gay bar called The Oil Rig. The rectory is now "Mouthfuls", a discotheque. Little of the original stained glass has been preserved.
– The CDC has identified a new, more virulent strain of the gay causing locally serious outbreaks in the Baltimore-DC corridor. Initial reports indicate that it may be airborne.
– The Super Bowl Champion Baltimore Ravens are too busy having sex with one another to practice; the upcoming season has been forfeited.

The sad part about these developments is that they were so predictable. Defenders of traditional marriage warned us that by destroying the sanctity of the institution, all marriages would be weakened and made less meaningful. A society that does not respect marriage descends into complete amorality with astonishing speed. Maryland did not heed the warning; how many other states must make the same mistake before we learn?

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64 Responses to “UNHEEDED WARNINGS”

  1. Dbp Says:

    It's not the man-dog marriages that are the problem, really. It's the children. And by that I mean ABORTION IS MURDER!!!! wargleblarg!

  2. Middle Seaman Says:

    It's not funny! My 3rd marriage has weakened. I am considering taking a boyfriend (or two). The only reason Jamie Damon is still JPM CEO is gay marriage.

  3. Xynzee Says:

    Ed,
    For someone who's political scientist, this is just shitty science and you know it. For that you ought to be ashamed of yourself.

    What mark would you give one of your students with these assumptions?

    You're argument is akin to Nixon taking office thanks to his "Southern Strategy" and by May that year we had the WI strikes and later Teabaggers up in arms when Carter took office. You more than anyone should know that in the social and political spheres that changes and effects take 20-30 years to reveal themselves. So yes from a (social) science stand point, FAIL.

  4. chris Says:

    Xynzee: a tool says what?

  5. c u n d gulag Says:

    You forgot that all of the Christian Churches are being torn down, and Mosques are being built in their place.

    And that Sharia is now the law of the land, in all of those states.

    And the Stock Exchange, is now the Boy Exchange.

    Why, oh why, didn't we listen to the Conservatives?!?!?!?!?!

  6. Neal Deesit Says:

    And Maryland crab cakes are now being made with crab lice! Ptui!

  7. Fiddlin Bill Says:

    You watched the Glenn Beck Teevee Show last night.

  8. Strangepork Says:

    More than 7,000 man-dog marriages have been performed statewide

    Sadly, more than 50% of these marriages will end in divorce.

  9. sluggo Says:

    But the economy has skyrocketed because of all the fabulous gay weddings!

    Replacing the Military Industrial Complex with the Gay Wedding Industrial Complex has been the single most effective economic decision of the last 500 years.

  10. bklyn4eveh Says:

    48. The answer is forty eight.

  11. Anon Says:

    Xynzee, I ask you again the question you are apparently ashamed to answer:

    Do you believe that God told the Israelites to kill the male homosexuals, as described in Leviticus?

    Or do you believe that Leviticus is lying?

    The last time I asked this, you decided to bear false witness against me and insult me rather than simply stand up for what you believe in. I suspect the reason is because, all your historical pseudo-argumentation aside, you're really a homophobe.

  12. Anon Says:

    @Xynzee:

    Incidentally, I'd like to reiterate my point from the other thread. Christianity in America is dying. The reason it is dying is, according to the studies, very clear. It's dying because Christians are either unwilling or unable to articulate a theology that is not homophobic.

    Right now, about 20-25% of Americans do not belong to an organized religion. Among 18-25 year olds, it's about 1/3. The reason they give the pollsters is that they think Christianity is a homophobic hate group.

    On Easter of 2012, 77% of Americans, according to Pew research, believed in the Ressurection. ONE YEAR LATER the number was down to 64%.

    The collapse of American Christianity isn't taking "20-30 years," Xynzee. We are looking at a scenario in which a minority of Americans will believe Jesus was resurrected *by the time we reach the next Presidential election.*

  13. Jacquie Says:

    Of course, the real trouble with man-dog marriages is how many will end with one spouse being euthanized. And won't the straights be jealous then!

  14. roboteating Says:

    In fine form, Ed. I really enjoyed this.

  15. StoneFoxx Says:

    I pledge allegiance
    to the beats
    of this might techno house…

    …and to the bass republic
    for which it jamz
    one nation
    under trance
    with dancefloors and festivals for all.

  16. Big Sister Says:

    In my state, you can now consecrate your man-dog marriage with a giant spliff. Of course the dog part of the newly wedded couple might object to the skunky-smelling smoke.

    OMG! The Evergreen State is really going to hell in a hand basket!

  17. sluggo Says:

    In recent news Bob Jones University has approved gay dating as long as the students are both of the same race.

    Of coarse they will be required to refrain from all sex until after they are wed.

  18. Big dog Says:

    Hey Big Sister, don't you know that hell is where all the fun people are? And before that we move to the Evergreen state.

  19. Big Sister Says:

    BTW why does everyone (myself included) keep referring to MAN-dog marriage? If a gal wants to enter connubial bliss with her Walker Coon Hound, should she not be equally entitled to do so as a guy with his Bichon Frise?

  20. jon Says:

    Woman-dog straight marriage or woman-dog lesbian marriage? The former is only considered impossible because conservatives are unwilling to imagine a man-of-the-house who can't sign mortgage documents while the latter is seen as "too licky" according to their extensive research which didn't find nearly enough porn of that sort that was deemed "bonerworthy".

  21. xynzee Says:

    NB: This is primarily for Anon as he's feeling more than a little needy at the moment, and intends to take the enjoyment out of this site for me. For everyone else you can just skip to the 2nd last para as it's the most important.

    Anon you have one serious persecution complex. – This conclusion has been drawn from the previous thread and the one you made the other day on how moderators are out to censure (possibly sensor) you.

    I hadn't realised you had a point, your hat covers it well.

    "False witness"? I do not think that term means what you think it means. (See first para.)

    Now then to go back, might I suggest you re-read your "rebuttal". In my first response to you, you said "Christianity cannot be talked about". I suggested that if *every time* you are getting the *exact* same response from your interlocutors perhaps you should examine how you are communicating with them. I.E. Take some responsibility for yourself and how you treat and communicate with others – guess I made the same mistake with you that Arslan makes with telling shut-ins to get a life, treat women as human beings and perhaps they might just get laid. Guess it's just easier seeing everyone as the one's with the problem.

    Which leads me to your final comment on the previous thread.

    The one I chose to ignore.

    Perhaps you should read through it. Read it from the perspective of someone with whom you are trying to learn something from if not about. Read it a couple of times, I suggest reading it aloud.

    Maybe, just maybe, you will find that in all of that hurt that you shoved into your "question" those parts where you were being dishonest. The parts where you treat others who disagree with you as monkeys to dance for your entertainment as you crank up the heat on the hotplate. Your questions are not legitimate questions. You want to hold all of the trumps, so you can say:
    A) Ha! See they're like this! How stupid! What rubes! What ignorant and backwards thinking people.
    –or–
    B) Ha! See even they don't believe their own silly nonsense so how can anyone take these idiots seriously.

    As I already stated, you do not argue nor treat others in good faith, and I'm not your monkey.

    As for your issue with Leviticus, hmmmm… you say you've read the Bible in its entirety. Then I'm guessing your knickers were twisted so tightly by something in those few verses that you stopped paying attention. It's all in there, so if you've read it, I'm sure you can find the important parts you need.

    The married couple I had around for dinner have insisted that I put this in here, though I feel that they're pandering to you. They find it very strange that a "homophobe" had invited them (a gay married couple, yes you read that right) around for a mid-week home cooked meal, and prayed for them in their struggles with unemployment. I guess I hate sin, but I can love, feed and pray for good things for the sinner. Or isn't that allowed in the paradigm of your (Anon's) sad, small, narrow minded and insular view of Christians and the world?

    Finally, a significant reason I did not answer your "questions" is simple. I said it a couple of days ago. We're guests here on Ed's blog. People are here for Ed's commentary, and a bit of good natured back and forth. Last time I checked, going off-topic is considered uncool. As far as I'm concerned we're done on this subject. If not, might I suggest you go re-read Sluggo's comment to you from the other day.

  22. xynzee Says:

    @Big Sister:
    "If a gal wants to enter connubial bliss with her Walker Coon Hound,.."

    Not sure if it was "connubial bliss" or "Walker Coon Hound" that gave me the giggles. However, thanks, I needed that. :)

  23. JohnR Says:

    It's been brutal here lately, as Ed points out – we could have handled the collapse of the Ravens, but when Dr. Carson was forced to gay-marry his dog on live television (Fox 45), that was almost the last straw. Still, they seem quite happy.

  24. Major Kong Says:

    @xynzee

    OK, you want to talk about the Bible. I've read it cover to cover – six times.

    So why is it, of all the multitude of sins listed in the scriptures that all the evangelicals want to talk about is sex? And specifically gay sex?

    Let's suppose, just for the sake of argument, homosexuality is indeed a sin.

    Fine. So's gluttony, but I haven't seen a coordinated political effort to deny gluttons basic rights. And looking at the size of Americans these days I'd say there's quite a few gluttons in our society.

    I find your story about feeding the married couple to be telling. It's all about their sin and nothing about yours. I could argue that right there is a sin of pride.

    We've all done something. And the way I read it, one sin's as bad as any other. If ya done one you've done 'em all.

    I for one have enough of my own to worry about that I don't need to put myself up on a pedestal about those "wicked" homosexuals.

  25. wyldpirate Says:

    I think the new stains on the stained glass at the former Cathlic church could be considred an improvement as they likely give an opaque nature to the glass as the light shines through.

  26. Andrew Laurence Says:

    A few conservative Christians have managed to talk themselves into "tolerance" (they're bad, but we put up with them because of OUR goodness) of gay people, but that's not good enough for me. "Acceptance" (they're just as good as us) is the appropriate standard.

  27. chautauqua Says:

    The whole Minnesota thing was all about seeing if we could get Michele Bachmans head to explode. Honest.

  28. mothra Says:

    I thought the virus was called "The Homo481 Strain."

  29. Big dog Says:

    @xynzee. A lot of us really enjoy your insightful contributions. We may disagree here and there but so what. I'm sure the ax that Anon is grinding will soon be worn to the nubbins, so hang in there for us who appreciate you.

  30. Anon Says:

    Can anyone just tell me whether Xynzee believes that Leviticus comes from God? I googled it but did not find the admission he claims he made earlier.

    Frankly, Xynzee, your condescension is both sickening and typical. You have consistently been hiding behind a holier-than-thou attitude for this entire discussion.

    And the thing is, that's the way the "nice" Christians always are, in my experience. They believe in horrific things- they believe that God ordered genocide. They believe that God ordered the murder of homosexuals.

    But we don't get to talk about their beliefs, because in this modern age of Rick Warren and Uganda, you're some sort of pathetic shut-in with a persecution complex if you want to talk about an irrelevant issue like Leviticus instead of applauding them for being nice people.

    Really, Xynzee? If I want to talk about why so many Christians keep murdering homosexuals, it's just because I have a persecution complex?

  31. Brian Says:

    Thanks for answering my man-dog question.

  32. Rosalux Says:

    Well done, as always.

    I only wish that churches were converted to discotheques. "Mouthfuls" sounds like a good time.

  33. Major Kong Says:

    Dogs and cats living together! Mass hysteria!

  34. Anon Says:

    You know, Xynzee, I think the problem is that you are simply unable to see things the way non-Christians see them.

    Let me explain it to you.

    To non-Christians, all that stuff in Uganda is horrible because they're killing people, just like the Nazis did.

    To Christians, it's only horrible because of bad timing.

    To you, all that "love the sinner, hate the sin" stuff proves what a wonderful Christian you are.

    To non-Christians, it comes off as holier-than-thou and condescending. It's also horrifying, because what you're really saying is "I admit, three thousand years ago, I would have killed them- but since I live today, I invited them over for dinner. Your shock at the first part of that sentence proves that I'm better than you."

    Can you see why your reduction of a fundamentally nazi-esque murder morality to a question of mere timing might be unsettling to people who don't share your fundamental assumptions about the morality of homosexuals, and about the killing thereof?

  35. Anon Says:

    @Rosalux:

    Just wait. Attendance has been dropping precipitously across the Western Hemisphere and in Europe. Like I said, Christianity is dying, thanks to its homophobia.

    I'm not exactly sure why it's "off topic" to point that out in a thread about gay marriage and churches being turned into nightclubs, but Xynzee sure seems to think so.

  36. sluggo Says:

    @ kong

    I want to be the first to denounce Glutton Marriage.

    It will lead to glutton on dog…….

    In all fairness, the buffets at Glutton Bars are to die for.

  37. sluggo Says:

    @ Xynzee

    Ironically, the name of my Glutton Church is the Leviticus All You Can Eat Buffet.

    They perform glutton weddings.

  38. Big Sister Says:

    I'm so embarrassed! When I read MAN-DOG, I should have remembered all those years in rural North Carolina where MAN meant male HUMAN and DOG meant male CANINE. (I almost swallowed my tongue the first time a Tarheel told me how pretty my BITCH was). So Man-dog marriage has GOT to refer to a homosexual relationship between males, whereas if you want to talk about a lesbian-canine thing, you'd have to use a phrase like GAL-BITCH.

    It's getting complicated…but you might also have to invent terms like GAL-DOG and MAN-BITCH…..just to be accurate.

  39. sluggo Says:

    @ Big Sis

    So calling it BITCH ON BITCH would insensitive?

  40. Big dog Says:

    @sluggo….yeah, kind of insensitive,, sort of like asshole on asshole, but maybe that is too suggestive.

  41. Major Kong Says:

    Man sees his friend's dog licking itself:

    "Boy I sure wish I could do that"

    Dog's owner:

    "OK but be careful. He might bite you."

  42. Big dog Says:

    Sluggo: I thought about BITCH-Bitch myself and i have to admit it has a certain panache.
    And in parts of North Carolina, it might work.
    But out here in Washington State, probably not.

  43. Andrew Says:

    Xynzee, I don't think you're demonstrating love for gay people by supporting a movement that denies them civil rights, no matter how many home cooked meals you make for them.

  44. Big Sister Says:

    I would have to agree with Andrew on this one, Xynzee.

  45. Bernard Says:

    well, these so called Christians just out themselves as hate filled scaredy cats listening to fear. just like the Muslim infidels they hate / fear so much. a rose is a rose is a rose, lol.

    must be some homosexual feelings they have inside and want to blame others with. being human is all that is required, accepting each other as we are. and this nonsense of having a "God", jeesus H Christ. they need to grow up and get over their own God complex.

    it is always sad and fascinating to see these kind of screeds from these sad, frightened shells of people. if we can't accept each other as we are, then what kind of God has made us in God's likeness, if i understand their "God". lol sad, sad, sad.

    now if we can only get rid of the Republicans who lead these soulless scared children, then there really might be a God after all.

    i thought there might be cat women marriages, too. knowing how women and cat seem to follow with the man and dog analogies. the word pussy cat comes to mind, but i'll just leave it at that. can't think of something right now that's "cute" with words.
    to say about that combo.

    how i would love to see Michelle Bachmann's head explode after what Minnesota did. that would be pure enjoyment. watching Ms. batshit crazy going batshit crazy.

  46. Xynzee Says:

    @Kong: your focus is way to narrow or you're hanging w a different type of evangelical to me. Try sex outside of marriage in general. Ah! There, now can you see the forest for the trees?

    To unpack that some more, think low hanging fruit. On that list how many are binary? As in on/off.
    So a minister does not have to do any work.

    I'm not greedy! I'm ambitious and The Lord has blessed me with material wealth because he lurves me sooo much!
    I'm not a glutton! I just have a slow metabolism and how dare you call me fat!
    –that said: I'm not sure how gluttony and greed are different. Are the Kochs greedy or are they gluttons with their hunger for more at the expense of others?
    I'm not a drunk! I just enjoy a drink (or 25)! Or I'm an alcoholic, so I'm diseased.

    Effectively, there's a big fuzzy area between someone who's been blessed and does good works with it, and the behaviours that the Kochs and those on Wall St display.

    At the heart of anything on that list is an attitude that it's all about me and my pleasure and what I want at the expense of all else and what's good for society as a whole.
    And let's not forget there's an aspirational element and an unavoidable day to day need in the others (ie eating, working). One can lead a full life w/o sex, shock horror I know. Being gay on the other hand… in general not so aspirational. Which again makes homosexuality an easy mark.

    What I'm pissed off w is how this has dominated the political/social landscape. I literally had a conversation change from dog ownership to the subject of gay marriage. To this day, I have no idea how this guy made the transition.

    As a hill to die on I'm rather p.o.'d w/ churches on this. We recently had an independent MP push for changes for gambling to minimise harm from it. Didn't hear boo from the pulpit. Which is worse for children (a primary argument), the family unit and by extension society in general. The gay couple next door, or mommy's gambling problem?
    The silence was deafening my friend.

  47. Phoenician in a time of Romans Says:

    NOT FUNNY – my engagement was totally ruined by gay marriages!

    The bastards made our plans for wedding decorations look too tacky to continue.

  48. Xynzee Says:

    @Sluggo: sounds good. Can one just graze and eat their fill or is the vomitorium mandatory?

  49. eau Says:

    I believe that gluttons should not be allowed to marry other gluttons.

    What about al those lonely feederts out there?

    Wont somebody please think of the feeders?

  50. Elle Says:

    Try sex outside of marriage in general. Ah! There, now can you see the forest for the trees?

    There are churches or religious organisations arguing that fornication should be unlawful?

  51. Xynzee Says:

    Anon: what are you? An escapee from Westboro Baptist? Your logic seems to be along same lines.

    WB logic: late season superstorm hits NYC/NJ. It's God's punishment upon us for the gays.
    A Logic: church attendance down. It's because of the gays.

    Nothing to do w/ 300+ years of intensive fossil fuel burning and deforestation.
    Nothing to do with 60yrs+ of post-modernism. So get your hand off it Daryl, as I hate to break it to you and your friends at Westboro, the world let alone the universe seriously doesn't revolve around gays. But if you and your world are so tragically small that you can only see it through a prism of sex and sexual identity… well that's your own tragedy and the story you've written for yourself.

    WB Logic: abortion is leading to a nazi holocaust.
    A Logic: someone says "I'm opposed to gay marriage". Anon concludes they implicitly and explicitly condone/support and in fact is gleefully building gas chambers or wishes they had been alive to run the gas chambers. Planning on moving to Uganda to commit heinous acts upon others.

    Yes Anon. Impeccable logic to say the least. The people at Westboro would be proud of you.

  52. Anon Says:

    @Jon : "… seen as 'too licky'" is epic. Thanks for winning the comment thread! :)

  53. Elle Says:

    @Xynzee

    I think that you are unfairly maligning Anon's analysis, as well as being unkind and ungracious in your remarks to him/her.

    The Barna Group's own analysis of young people's impressions of the church draws the same conclusion that Anon does, but obviously from a slightly different perspective. A piece of work they did in 2007 identified that 80% of young Christians identify the church as 'anti-homosexual' (their language, not mine), along with 91% of young non-Christians. This prompted Rachel Held Evans, among other evangelical writers, to produce a fairly impassioned plea for evangelical Christianity to reconsider its role in the culture war.

    Follow-up work by Barna, looking explicitly at the issue of young people leaving the church, identified sexuality and attitudes to difference as two of six key things driving young people away from church.

    I'm not sure why you think that it's ludicrous to bring up Uganda in the context of a discussion on same-sex marriage. There seems to be entirely reasonable grounds to side-eye the connection between the anti-marriage equality campaigns in the US and the formulation of vicious homophobic legislation in Uganda and elsewhere.

  54. JohnR Says:

    Once again we see that language is the foremost barrier to communication. Maybe we should invent a symbol to represent Inigo's Observation.

  55. just me Says:

    Elle Says:

    May 24th, 2013 at 3:05 am
    Try sex outside of marriage in general. Ah! There, now can you see the forest for the trees?

    There are churches or religious organisations arguing that fornication should be unlawful?

    Tragic. Tragic, I say.
    It was difficult enough to watch Major Kong sully himself.
    Oh, I understand the temptation. But I can't believe that you, dear lady, bothered to soil your slippers by wading into this tripe.

  56. Elle Says:

    I appreciate your concern for my slippers, Just Me. In reciprocal interest as to your continued wellbeing, I would advise against reading the post I've made in this thread that is currently languishing in the moderation queue.

  57. Big Sister Says:

    @brooklyn4eveh. Isn't the answer thirty-eight? Fifty states,minus twelve that allow gay marriage, leaves us with thirty-eight to go. (I did the arithmetic in my head, so it could be wrong)

  58. Anon Says:

    Wow, Xynzee. Just wow.

    You're arguing with a queer, and you run out of arguments, so you compare me to Westboro Baptist Church, because hey, it's the most hurtful thing you can think of, so why not?

    When Black people out-argue you, do you just casually throw out "what are you, an escapee from the KKK?"

    When a Jew takes you to task for your bad behavior, do you call them a Nazi? Is that your last resort argument?

    Because frankly, Christian, if YOU were suffering real persecution, if the Westboro Baptist Church were protesting the funerals of YOUR loved ones, maybe you would understand how inappropriate your swinish behavior is.

    Because, you see, real persecution isn't just "wah! someone is disagreeing with me on the Internet! You're spoiling my enjoyment of Gin and Tacos! Why won't the homosexuals just leave us good Christians alone?"

    You have indicated that if you lived in ancient Israel, you would KILL people like me, and count yourself a righteous person for doing so.

    When I balk at that, you insult me, you call me ignorant, and you tell me that I'm delusional and have a "persecution complex" if I think the Christian Emperors of Rome, the Nazis, the UK government (up until the 1860's) and the current Uganda government have ever persecuted homosexuals, because you claim that your people quit killing homosexuals over 2,000 years ago, LIAR.

    And when I refuse to pin the Christian Medal of Self-Congratulation on you when you proudly declare that you people quit carrying out God's orders to kill us just as soon as the pagans made you quit, you whine about how YOU are the one really being persecuted.

    And when that doesn't fly, you compare me to Westboro.

    I wish I could return the compliment, so you could gain some perspective on how non-Christians see you, Xynzee. But the fact is that it's impossible for me to do so, because you're a Christian. You people have been shitting on me all my life, but you have the luxury of never having to know what real persecution is.

  59. Xynzee Says:

    @Elle: are there links to the actual survey questions themselves? This does not detract from the overall message that church must improve how it conveys its message of salvation and redemption while continuing to stand that sin is unacceptable.

    If I asked a battery of questions:
    Is the church opposed to fornication?
    Is the church opposed to pornography?
    Is the church opposed to adultery?
    Is the church opposed to prostitution?
    Is the church opposed to homosexuality?

    The conclusion is: the church opposes sex!!!

    If I asked a battery of questions:
    Is the church opposed to fornication?
    Is the church opposed to pornography?
    Is the church opposed to drug/alcohol *abuse/addiction*?
    Is the church opposed to prostitution?
    Is the church opposed to contravening the law by using illegal substances.
    Is the church opposed to homosexuality?

    We wind up some where else.

    If we ask:
    Is the church opposed to sin which includes: fornication, pornograpgy, adultery, theft, use of *illegal* drugs, homosexuality, avarice, drug/alcohol *abuse*, drug dealing…

    We wind up somewhere closer to the mark.
    NB: the churches that I attend treat these with gentleness and love. Not a perceived harshness and judgementalism. Though anyone when confronted with their sin will not see it that way at the time. As I'm sure many are aware from their experiences with either their own or a relative's alcoholism.

    Elle, I am surprised by your drawing an equivalence between SSM and *killing* someone, let alone creating a slippery slope between one to the other. Your arguments are usually far tighter than this. I may not agree with you, but I respect your argumentation, but on this one you've missed the mark. Not being/Having the ability for married does *not* preclude one from enjoying/participating in a full and rewarding life. This is evidenced by heterosexual singles who never marry and hetero-defacto relationships (w/ or w/o kids). Are these groups in any way prohibited from participating life and its necessities? Are they threatened with denial of housing, work, imprisonment, death? Then neither should gays.

    You *must* have work (which equals food and shelter), you must have social connections (family/friends). However, you will not die if you do not marry or have sex. See the difference? It is not the same beating, imprisoning or torturing. Not by a long shot.

    Now then, I will draw a line between denial of work, housing, imprisonment to what's happening in Uganda. I am more than appalled, and gladly manned the battlements to fight the OCA. I will oppose *any* such measures and would help to campaign for repeal of or to prevent enactment of laws of the OCA nature. If my state had them I would have helped campaign against antisodomy laws. We don't arrest and imprison alcoholics and fornicators for *being* those do we? If one sin is bad enough to arrest then so is the other.

    Unfortunately, because I do not view SSM as a "civil right" but as a spiritual issue my vote/efforts are not considered "good enough".

    To address your charge of homophobia. If I'm opposed to alcoholism does that make me dipsomaniaphobic? Because I'm opposed to porn does that make me pornophobic? Because I'm opposed to prostitution does that mean I'm uh… donnanocturnaphobic?

    Some how just because someone opposes what's popular and refuses to conform to concensus on this topic automatically casts them as an advocate of death camps. Anything like that is far from the truth. Just because I'm opposed does not mean I do not care. I see the topic as no more morally wrong as my own brokenness and moral failings. On the scales which is heavier? 1 gram uranium or 1 gram of plutonium? While mine is consider "socially acceptable", it is equally toxic to the soul.

  60. Xynzee Says:

    Anon:
    I'll try to answer your question. All I ask is that you try to listen to it w/ respect.
    This is something that happens over beers between friends over a number of years. Not strangers on the web. Does that make sense?

    I say this as someone who is just as broken by life as you are. As I said to Elle which is heavier. 1 gram of plutonium or 1 gram of uranium? At the end of the day both are toxic to the soul. I try to muddle along day by day too. I'm no better or worse than you.

    The problem I have in answering your question is that it sounds like I'm taking the piss (being facetious times 100). I'm not.

    Firstly, understand the Christian understanding of Leviticus. Leviticus' raîson d'être is to be horrible. It is supposed to be horrible, nasty and make us beyond uncomfortable. It points out how far short of perfection we fall.

    Even when we follow it to perfection we still fall short, ie the Pharisee and the tax collector. Who went away with his sin forgiven?

    Ironically that Pharisee wasn't some rhetorical figure. There was a Pharisee named Paul. I too hate Paul. Then…
    I found myself on the road to Damascus.

    Are you w/ me so far?

    Can you meet the levitical standards? If you only fall short in one area of your life more power to you. As for me, I know I cannot.

    Therefore the answer to Leviticus is Jesus.

    Sounds trite and facetious I know, but that's the answer. Leviticus shows *why* Jesus is important. No I'm not taking the piss. That's my answer.

    You mean as much to God as I do. God doesn't hate you.

    My concern for you isn't about who you love.
    Rather for the hurt and bitterness you carry in your heart. And that saddens me. That you will find the healing you need.

    As a fellow muddler on the road of life. I wish you well and peace.

  61. Anon Says:

    Xynzee, thanks for sharing.

    Sometimes Christians online will say, "I don't know why everyone hates Christians so much." And if they sincerely mean it, if they really want to know, I have a really good conversation explaining to them how their behavior comes across to non-Christians.

    Xynzee, to non-Christians, your behavior comes across as colossally holier-than-thou and condescending.

    A non-Christian in your situation would say, "Wow, Anon, on reflection I realize that it was really hurtful and inappropriate of me to compare a queer to the Westboro Baptist Church. I now realize that my comments about the historical persecution of queers were so irrelevant as to be offensive. That being the case, I'm sorry I called your motives into question and accused you of being ignorant of queer history.

    And for my behavior, I am deeply, truly, sorry."

    The Christian version:
    "Let me give you a sermon, and tell you how I feel so, so sorry for you because of this mysterious hurt that you seem to be feeling. I have no idea why you feel like Christians dump on you, but as I myself am also just a poor, confused sinner no better than you, I pray you can one day overcome this delusion that Christians are insulting you."

    See the difference, Xynzee?

    Again, this is how nearly all of my conversations with Christians go. They insult and belittle me, and then when I call them out on their nasty behavior, they use that to launch their "I have no idea why you're so angry, but you are clearly a poor, confused, hurt soul and I am praying for you" act. But the one thing a Christian will almost never do is apologize.

    Why?

    Because *to a Christian, it is always the non-Christian's fault.*

    It's like the old article from the Onion: "Pope forgives victims of pedophile priests." Because it's not just me. I'm just trying to explain to you what kind of public image your behavior has earned. That's why your religion is dying.

    So thank you for finding it within yourself to forgive me for the sin of being insulted and falsely accused by you.

    While we're on the topic, you seem confused by the fact that you are condemned as a homophobe even though you are opposed to anti-sodomy laws.

    If you ever raise a gay child, *they* won't need anyone to explain why your behavior is hurtful.

    "All I want to do is homeschool my child in young-Earth creationism. Why do people hate me so much?"

    "Why do people blame my religion for the death of children? So we don't believe in blood transfusions. It's not like we want to *outlaw* blood transfusions. Why do people hate me so much?"

    Like I said before, if you were the oppressed instead of the oppressor, you would understand. If you were queer, you would know that your Bible-based ideas about human sexuality are as spot-on as the creationists' Bible-based ideas about geology.

    That's why people respond so negatively to your beliefs. Because we know, from personal experience, how hurtful your beliefs are.

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