The "Anybody but Hillary" defense of voting for Trump is already bubbling to the surface. It's unsurprising, since it sounds much better than "I don't like brown people but I'm smart enough not to admit it." It will be popular among the usual suspects who were going to vote Republican no matter what despite protests about evaluating the candidates on their merits. You know. Old white people.

In the long run it isn't consequential because 2012 already proved that there aren't enough of them to win an election. The logic, or the implied logic, is pretty interesting though. Whenever I encounter someone who talks about what a nightmare the Bill Clinton years were, I really push them on specifics. Was it the rapid economic growth? The balanced budget? The lack of full-scale wars? Of course Bill wasn't personally responsible for everything positive that happened during his two terms. I'm just trying to wrap my head around what exactly was so bad. It inevitably boils down to 1) He banged an intern, which is important because Reasons, and 2) He humiliated the country by using diplomacy with other nations rather than pulling his dick out and waving it around screaming AMERICA #1 SUCK IT. Nothing rankles these people like a perceived lack of Ass-Kickin' toughness.

Policy-wise, about the worst thing old white people could expect during a Hillary Clinton presidency is for personal income tax levels to stay where they are (Let's briefly ignore the fact that in the name of the god Centrism, she'll probably sign a few gratuitous tax cuts just because). It is very difficult to wrap my head around a level of narcissism and a provincialism of worldview that could leave someone unable to conceive of anything worse than…not getting more tax cuts. But probably getting more tax cuts anyway.

Really? You can't think of anything worse? You'll vote for literally anyone to avoid voting for someone with a proven track record of blowing up small countries (Which Old White People like!) and a level of fiscal liberalism about as powerful as Ronald Reagan's? I mean, I can think of much worse things than that. War. Famine. Genocide. Destruction of the planet. The breakdown of civil order. Worsening economic and social inequality. The loss of personal freedoms in the name of religious dogma. Paying full sticker price for a Dodge Charger. Really, any remotely imaginative person should be able to think of hundreds of worse things than four bland, middlebrow years of Hillary Clinton protecting the status quo.

But not your parents. For them, nothing could equal that horror. For some reason. Look, it can't be explained. Just because. Go clean your room.

74 thoughts on “BEYOND DESCRIPTION”

  • Hillary will nominate someone who will change the makeup of SCOTUS such that McDonald v Chicago and DC v Heller are toast.

    At least, that's an objection they could come up with that changes the status quo.

  • Thanks so much! Your clarity and passion are refreshing. I'm genuinely nauseated at the demonization of Clinton, it's insane.

  • One thing I've heard from the Bernie Bros online as of late is "stop reminding us about the Supreme Court."

    Um, no. If you are too much of an asshole to not care about the fate of ACA and gay marriage and further penury heaped upon poor women of color re: abortion rights (at the very minimum) then no, I won't shut up about the possibility of a Supreme Court Justice Ted Cruz.

    (Did I mention you're a complete asshole if you don't vote to prevent a Supreme Court Justice Ted Cruz? Because objectively, you are.)

  • U.S. in the EU says:

    I'm afflicted like Ed. My parents do the same shiver when HRC is merely mentioned on the radio. But I remind myself that's the presidential period that Rush L. got started (& 'Rush is right' listening parties), the family research council pamphlets started getting delivered in the mail, and people stared listening to talk radio on their (possibly longer) commutes rather than classic rock (?). In other words, thats the era of the earliest right wing Wurlitzer.

    Just a t hought

  • Not that it is reason enough to vote for Trump…nothing would be reason enough, but if you want a breakdown of the Clinton legacy which has contributed to our present circumstances, read this book: "The Deep State" by Mike Lofgren.

  • I agree with U.S in the EU; the Clinton era began with talk radio idiots calling 12-year-old Chelsea Clinton "the White House dog" and barking at her. What they did to Hillary Clinton was worse, and relentless. My mother never worked a day in her life and didn't listen to the radio, but she was a huge, huge fan of the (then-relatively-new) Fox station and kept it on literally all day, in every room of the house (they have seven televisions in a 3-bedroom ranch house). There was simply nothing Hillary Clinton could have done to please my mother becuase she was so brainwashed by rightwing noise sources. I haven't discussed politics with my parents in years, but I'm sure if I did, they would echo what Ed says.

  • Hillary, for all her faults, at least has the benefit of being sane.

    Trump scares me because I don't know what he would do if elected.

    Cruz scares me worse because I KNOW what he would do if elected.

  • The Glass-Steagall Act was repealed by Bill C. in 1999, had worked from 1932 just fine thank you. I am not talking about this election. BUT you give Bill way too much of a pass on that one event. That repeal led to where we are today with the financial world. Just want to point that out. The D's worked in concert with $$$$ to remove a law that had been in place and doing fine in 1999.
    Again not talking about this election. Only Bill, and you brought it up….
    Thanks. I hope easter was fun for all.

  • Just a few things under Bill Clinton that helped no one but the rich.


    Gramm Leach Bliley- Repealed Glass-Steagal and led to latest meltdown in 2008

    Sentencing guidelines- Horrific for African-Americans

    Welfare reform act-

    I like you Ed but I'm not sure if you are being lazy or intellectually dishonest here.

  • old white person says:

    What we hated about the Bill Clinton years: the nightmare of peace and prosperity.

    By the way, I love the way the media, the pundits and many commentors on many blogs, lump Hillary with Bill and blame her for everything negative he did.

    As I recall, after the mess with the health reform, rejected by a Newt's boys partly because "who did she think she was trying to make policy as a First Lady", the White House pretty much shoved her into the traditional background.* We have actually no idea what she really thought because she was, you know, the wife.

    *Though we do know she killed Vince Foster, fired the travel people, hid all her records from her Rose law years because they would have proved she stole the entire state of Arkansas or something something something. What am I forgetting? (I'm old)

  • Emerson Dameron says:

    For the sake of argument: Three strikes, Superpredators, NAFTA, ending welfare as we know it, letting Wall Street become the most powerful force in the world, DADT, DOMA, numerous military adventures, Marc Rich, boomer narcissism and zero-sum self-interest as tragedy and farce.

    All lame excuses to vote for Trump, natch, unless you're just rooting for chaos.

  • Well, the answer is obvious. Kill all "old white people," since we seem to be the cause of all your problems. It will be win-win. We won't have to listen to your whining any more. And then things will sail along smoothly until the millennials run out of money — and, you know, stuff — and will have no idea where it comes from or how to get more. Damn, I love solving world problems first thing on a Monday morning.

  • This presidential election is about one thing: the opportunity to flip SCOTUS. If the Dems fuck this up, we end up with the same (or worse) court we have today for the next 30 years. If the White House remains in Democratic hands, we get to replace Scalia and likely Anthony Kennedy with more liberal judges along with protecting RBG's and Breyer's liberal seats.

    I want a 6-3 Liberal court for the next 20-30 years. I want it to be so Liberal that Sam Alito retires early rather than face the prospect of being the member of a small minority for a couple of decades (potentially leading to a 7-2 Liberal court).

    Everything and anything else after this is gravy.

    So I (old white guy) am voting for the Democratic nominee. I'd like it to be Bernie but I will vote for Hillary. Hell, I will vote for Oscar the Grouch if he's the Democratic nominee.

  • Bill paved the way for a nation of David Kleinflelds (inundated and anesthetized by consumer materialism); but it was marginally better than a world teeming with Benny (from the Bronx) Blancos.

  • @MajorKong; can I steal what you wrote? I also of terrified of Trump and Cruz for the exact same reasons.

  • A guy named Brent Arends has made a list of the terrible things Hilllary Clinton has done.

    DOVER, N.H. (MarketWatch) — I have a confession to make: I can’t keep up.
    Am I supposed to hate Hillary Rodham Clinton because she’s too left-wing, or too right-wing? Because she’s too feminist, or not feminist enough? Because she’s too clever a politician, or too clumsy?
    Am I supposed to be mad that she gave speeches to rich bankers, or that she charged them too much money?
    I’m up here in New Hampshire watching her talk to a group of supporters, and I realized that I have been following this woman’s career for more than half my life. No, not just my adult life: the whole shebang. She came onto the national scene when I was a young man.
    And for all that time, there has been a deafening chorus of critics telling me that she’s just the most wicked, evil, Machiavellian, nefarious individual in American history. She has “the soul of an East German border guard,” in the words of that nice Grover Norquist. She’s a “bitch,” in the words of that nice Newt Gingrich. She’s a “dragon lady.” She’s “Elena Ceaușescu.” She’s “the Lady Macbeth of Little Rock.”
    Long before “Benghazi” and her email server, there was “Whitewater” and “the Rose Law Firm” and “Vince Foster.” For those of us following her, we were promised scandal after scandal after scandal. And if no actual evidence ever turned up, well, that just proved how deviously clever she was.
    So today I’m performing a public service on behalf of all the voters. I went back and re-read all the criticisms and attacks and best-selling “exposés” leveled at Hillary Rodham Clinton over the past quarter-century. And I’ve compiled a list of all her High Crimes and Misdemeanors.
    Here they are:
    1. When she was first lady, she murdered White House lawyer Vince Foster and then dumped his body in a park.
    2. She drove Vince Foster to commit suicide through her temper tantrums.
    3. She was having an affair with Vince Foster.
    4. She’s a lesbian.
    5. Chelsea isn’t Bill Clinton’s child.
    6. She murdered Vince Foster to cover up that she once bought a tract of undeveloped land in Arkansas and lost money.
    7. She murdered Vince Foster to cover up her role in firing the White House travel department.
    8. After she murdered Vince Foster, she ransacked his office in the middle of the night and stole all the documents proving her guilt.
    9. When Bill Clinton was governor of Arkansas, she was a partner in the state’s top law firm, and it sometimes did work involving the state government.
    10. She once invested in commodities futures on the advice of a friend and made $100,000, proving she’s a crook.
    11. She once invested in real estate on the advice of another friend and lost $100,000, also proving she’s a crook.
    12. Unnamed and unverifiable sources have told Peggy Noonan things about the Clintons that are simply too terrible to repeat.
    13. The personnel murdered at Benghazi make her the first secretary of state to lose overseas personnel to terrorism — apart from Condi Rice, Colin Powell, Madeleine Albright, George Schultz, Dean Rusk and some others.
    14. Four State Department staff were murdered at Benghazi, compared with only 119 others murdered overseas under every secretary of state combined since World War II.
    15. She illegally sent classified emails from her personal server, except that apparently they weren’t classified at the time.
    16. She may have cynically wriggled around the email law by “technically” complying with it.
    17. She once signed a lucrative book contract when she was a private citizen.
    18. Donald Trump says she “should be in jail,” and he’s a serial bankrupt casino developer in Atlantic City, so he should know.
    19. Former House Majority Leader Tom Delay says his “law-enforcement sources” tell him she is “about to be indicted” — and if a man once convicted of money laundering and conspiracy doesn’t have good law-enforcement sources, who does?
    20. She’s a hard-left radical who wants to break up the nuclear family.
    21. She’s a conservative “mousewife” who refused to break up her own family.
    22. She’s in favor of single moms.
    23. She refused to be a single mom.
    24. When she was first lady of Arkansas, she pandered to conservative voters by dyeing her hair.
    25. Before that, she totally insulted them by refusing to.
    26. She’s a frump.
    27. She spends too much money on designer dresses.
    28. She has “cankles.”
    29. She has a grating voice.
    30. She yells into the microphone.
    31. She spent 18 years in Arkansas and some of the people she knew turned out to be crazy rednecks and crooks.
    32. She’s in the pay of the mafia.
    33. She’s in the pay of the Chinese government.
    34. She’s in the pay of the Wall Street banks.
    35. In order to suppress the billing records from her time at the Rose Law Firm in Little Rock, she cleverly packed them up and took them to the White House rather than shredding them.
    36. When she handed over the documents to public officials, they couldn’t find any evidence she’d committed any crimes, so she must have doctored them.
    37. Congress spent tens of millions of dollars and six years investigating her investment in the Whitewater real-estate project, and, while they didn’t actually find anything, they wouldn’t have spent all that money if there weren’t something there.
    38. By cleverly hiding all evidence of her crimes in the Whitewater affair, she caused Congress to waste all that taxpayers’ money.
    39. When she ran for senator of New York, she was still a fan of the Chicago Cubs.
    40. She once said the Clintons were thinking of adopting a child, and they didn’t follow through.
    41. She was photographed holding her hand near her mouth during the raid that killed Osama bin Laden.
    42. She’s got brain damage.
    43. She’s old.
    44. She’s really ambitious and calculating, unlike all the other people running for president.
    45. She secretly supported Palestinian terrorists, Puerto Rican terrorists and Guatemalan terrorists.
    46. She secretly supported a group that wants to give Maine back to the Indians.
    47. She’s a secret follower of “radical prophet” Saul Alinsky.
    48. She did her law degree at Yale, and it’s a well-known “socialist finishing school.”
    49. When she was young, she did things to build up her résumé rather than just for their own good.
    50. When Bill was president, she “allowed” him to keep people waiting.
    51. She’s married to a sex addict.
    52. She’s an enemy of traditional marriage.
    53. She didn’t divorce her husband.
    54. His philandering is her fault because she is too strong, and too weak, and too frumpy, and too fat, and too cold.
    55. She’s hostile to women who fool around with her husband.
    56. A divorced taxi driver in Florida told me that if Hillary is elected president, “women will take over everything.”
    57. She insulted Tammy Wynette.
    58. When they left the White House, she and Bill bought a big house in New York that they couldn’t afford.
    59. She sometimes calls her staff during dinner, even when they’re out at a restaurant.
    60. She claimed there was a “vast right-wing conspiracy” against her husband, and it turned out there was nothing but a bunch of tycoons financing private investigators, and some fake think tanks and books and news sites and stuff.
    61. When she got married, she didn’t “stay at home and bake cookies.”
    62. She supported the Iraq war because she’s a secret foreign-policy conservative.
    63. She’s a secret foreign-policy radical with a plan to impose worldwide “radical social experimentation” through the World Bank.
    64. She is secretly plotting to let children sue their parents for making them take out the garbage.
    65. She looked bored during the Benghazi hearings.
    66. Oh, yeah — and she totally has a vagina.
    It’s clear: Hillary must be stopped. Hearings now!

  • Yeah, I don't get it either. The Kenyan Usurper doubled down in AfPak, whacked Syria and Libya pretty hard (oh yeah, Yemen), helped start a civil war in Ukraine, expanded the drone assassination program, and cut growth in government spending in the face of the worst economic slowdown since the Great Depression. Mrs. Clinton promises to be George H.W. Bush to Obama's Reagan. What's for the old folks not to like?

  • It is, of course, too easy to chalk it all up to sexism, just as it was (is) too easy to chalk up the disproportionate hatred of Obama as racism.

    Because both the Secretary and the President are human beings with public lives who have made decisions and those decisions have had consequences and rational people can and probably should disagree with some or even many of those choices and their consequences.

    I get that. I do.

    But you're not going to tell me that the people who hate Hillary on the right don't, as one, think of her as "That BITCH." That's the word. That's the word that flashes in every single brain when her face is seen, her voice is heard, her name is mentioned: "That BITCH."

    I suspect that on the left, among the supporters of Sen. Sanders, she is not invariably thought of by that term. I suspect that the hatred of her in that quarter is simply the hatred of idealists for the Stubborn Reality that stands between them and their Dream. It's irrational, and it's silly, but I give the Bernie-boosters this much credit: It's not substantially sexist.

    But on the right? She's "That BITCH." It's a lot of things–it's her '60s era early values (long since modulated, but no one cares to notice), it's the fact that she and Bill displaced all the Reaganites in D.C., it really is a lot of things.

    But always-also, it's the fact that she's a fucking woman, and shut the fuck up, you fucking BITCH.

    I listen to the radio, I listen to the discussion in waiting rooms and lobbies and across the aisle at IHOP (don't judge), and while the sample may be small, it is remarkably consistent. And horrifying.

    She's gonna win, too. Which means we're in for 4–and probably 8 more years of this "let's find euphemisms for hate speech" bullshit.

    Sometimes you can't sigh heavily enough.

  • Gerald McGrew says:


    As you can see from several posts, there are lots of reasons why Bill Clinton's presidency wasn't all that great for progressives. So if you really were looking for specifics, you have them now.

    Also, "In the long run it isn't consequential because 2012 already proved that there aren't enough of them to win an election."

    No, not a presidential election, but they're certainly enough to take firm control of the House and have a majority in the Senate.

  • In defense of Old White Guys, I will die before I vote for Trump or Cruz. I'm not font of Hillary. I wasn't all that fond of Bill. But Bill was a competent president. Hillary will be, too.

    Trump vacillates between catastrophe and disaster.

  • It's all there in the first graf – they vote Republican because they are against brown people. They don't burn crosses or say the n-word when sober, so they don't believe they are racist. They just don't want their tax money going to "those people". The civil rights era was 50 YEARS AGO. WTF is wrong with this country?

  • OMG thanks for setting me straight I had no idea that Bill Clinton was not a progressive dreamboat or that he signed NAFTA.

    If you have any additional information that isn't relevant to the fucking point please share it post-haste.

  • >1) He banged an intern, which is important because Reasons

    Leaving everything else aside, it is WAY not okay for people in positions of power/authority to have relations/relationships with subordinates. Not that his so doing should affect your voting or not voting for Hillary.

  • Meh. Hillary's "likable enough." The issue, for me, is that there really aren't many elections where you actually have a chance of electing someone non-milquetoast, and if you squander it you probably won't get another chance for many years. In this "anybody but an insider" year, I believe that Bernie truly has a better a chance than Hillary does of defeating whichever weirdo the Republicans select. By that, I mean that I think Bernie has a 90% chance versus 80% for Hillary. I'll vote for either one, but I think it's totally acceptable to point out that Bill was the first Democratic president to promote the awesomeness of corporations and unfettered capitalists, and to facilitate their takeover of everything. Now we're all expected to agree that corporations are way more awesome than the pathetic government, which really is becoming more pathetic year by year in what is, to some unknown degree, a self-fulfilling prophesy. I think it's just fine to fight hard for Bernie, and to sincerely lament being stuck with Hillary if it comes to that, but "Anyone but Hillary" is, indeed, a bridge too far.

  • @Katydid THANK YOU. I'm stealing your screed and posting it as my Facebook status so all my little brother's Bernie Bro friends can get all red in the face and call me a mega bitch and, well, just make my Monday. I live for taunting them.

  • Gerald McGrew says:

    Sheesh Ed, try and be little more objective. You started off your post by pointing out that Bill C. wasn't so bad and even chastised his critics for not being able to give specifics.

    But then when people give you specifics….lots of them….you wave it all away as irrelevant?

    Just do the adult thing…accept reality and incorporate this information into your position.

    I'm always amazed (and disappointed) at how hard it is for people to just say "Oh, guess I was wrong on that. My bad."

  • A lot of the causes of the current oligarchy we're living in came about during the Bill Clinton years. While we can't blame Hillary for the choices of her husband, she did serve as an advisor to him throughout his time in office.

    "Listen, Liberal: Or, What Ever Happened to the Party of the People?" -by Thomas Frank does an excellent job of outlining just how responsible Bill is for the state of the country today.

    That being said, there is nothing on earth that will keep me from supporting the Democratic candidate. Hillary certainly isn't my idea of progress but she's not going to blow this motherfucker up either.

  • The fact that there is so little on which you can attack Hillary from the right should crystallize just why those who oppose her from the left are so fervently against her candidacy.

    But whatever, just invoke the word "Bro." The specifics and details don't matter.

    And yes I'm still going to vote for her if she's the nominee, christ.

  • @ccmegan; if you're referring to the 25-point screed about Hillary Clinton, I didn't write it! Please don't attribute it to me (I'm not that clever)! Several people emailed it to me, and it's attributed to a guy named Brent Arends. this seemed like a great place to share it.

    The piece really spoke to me; in 1993, I worked in a DC suburb at a non-profit (real estate, not politics). I was one of three employees who were not hired out of an evangelical church, and those "good" folks were absolutely gleeful at the thought of their cult-school soccer team playing against the private school that 12-year-old Chelsea Clinton attended–they were egging on their kids to attack Chelsea Clinton. Why attack a 12-year-old? Because she was "ugly" (and how many adolescent girls are movie-star beautiful?). The truth? They hated her mother, who WORKED for a living, and hated President Bill Clinton, so they were going to take it out on his daughter.

    Hillary Clinton is up against the same level of stupid hatred.

  • So… Any of you commenters intent on pointing out Bill's *progressive* failings want to explain how that relates to the opinions of the racist, totally-not-racist, old, white "swing voters" Ed was referring to? Because, sure, we're all sick of Ed's constant fawning apologia for Bill and sycophantic Hillary-boosting, for example: (in lieu of any example, please imagine the sound of crickets here), but I'm not sure old, middle class, white people know what a Glass Tea Gaul is, or why it should change their vote.

    Or are you all just mad because Ed said some thing mean about The Olds again, and you still can't face up to the fact that your generation fucked everything up?

  • I have taken the pledge – the Democratic Party could run with Gore/Kerry and not lose my vote. Hell's bells, at this point I'd take the galvanized corpse of George McGovern.

    I understand the passion on both sides (of the Democratic Party), but for me, right now, it's like the eighth inning of a Giants/Dodgers game. I don't care so much about who wins, I just want it to be over.

  • @Gerald McGrew: You and Ed are looking at the issue from two different perspectives. It seems like Ed was referring to the *conservative* ("old white people," in his words) arguments for disliking Clinton… I.e the intern affair and perceived weak foreign policy. But you're hitting Ed with the *liberal* arguments for disliking Clinton. I don't think that's what he's talking about.

  • eau –

    Yeah, we shoulda killed Goldwater and Reagan and Falwell and Limbaugh when we were young and agile.

    You can plug in other names when your kids are demanding to know how you could have fucked up so badly on Global Warming.

  • @Katydid I saw the by-line you included, no worries :) And I didn't really post it; really, just fantasized about inciting a young, white hipster riot on my timeline. Because that shit's hilarious.

    I believe every word of your story. There are so many like it. Por ejemplo, when my uncle got a new (female) puppy circa 1993, he named it Hillary and everyone just laughed and laughed, and I vomited. The stubborn denial that it's anything more than "that BITCH", as Ed says, just flabbergasts me.

  • Skepticalist says:

    Every youngster not driving a Hummer displaying 67 poorly affixed bumper and window stickers is wild for Bernie. He's unelectable however because of one little self-descriptive word. Maybe there's some hope for us someday because these kids don't get it.

    Until then, in today's odiferous D. C. nothing is as important as retaining a Democratic veto. Gotta vote for Hillary.

  • What was Hillary responsible for during her husband's Presidency? A quiz.

    1. Something successful? NO WAY!
    2. Something immensely popular that passed with huge margins through Congress and her husband signed but has parts that are now considered not so okay if not flat-out racist? SHE PERSONALLY PUT IN THOSE PARTS!
    3. Something that turned out scandalous? OF COURSE IT WAS HER!
    4. Something that turned out awful? TOTALLY PROVES SHE'S EVIL!

    I want a wife like Hillary! She'd be responsible for my affairs, even! And all the consequences, AS THIS IMPORTANT PIECE OF RIGHT WING AGITPROP REPOSTED BY BERNIE SANDERS' SUPPORTERS PROVES!

  • @Mo: yeah, that last sentence of my comment. Why did I put that there? Not sure. In my defence, it was really early in the morning.

    @Emerson: Nailed it with the 'shitty reasons for voting for trump', though! :)

  • lol, who said anything about the best possible choice for Pres? Bernie without a doubt.
    the most effective Republican in the race is, of course, Hillary. just like Obama was the best black plantation overseer, Hillary will be the best "female" plantation overseer.

    scratch them both and you will find Obama and Hillary right of center, like most of the rest of the D's and R's.. that's where the money is. as always follow the money.

    after reading that Hillary sucked up to Mellon Scaife, the guy behind the Whitewater Money BS, well. power does what it takes to stay in power.

    and you're right about the whites, the old whites who voted for St. Reagan still believe.
    just they are not as Reich wingers as the R's are. The R's know how to "sell". and Business has been buying Politicians since the Powell Memo.

    so i'll just watch and see how much Hillary sells us out to the Reichwingers for "membership" in the Club. and all the "supposed" left of center Americans will get screwed over again. Membership has it privileges and we are not in it, though we do pay for it.

    Bill really did the best Republican work of any president since St. Reagan. i mean, facts don't lie, that is, if you want to know. lol. Watching Bill and Hillary's Great Adventure, it's too bad i lived here during Bill's "term." Though, i doubt Hillary can beat Trump. it's hard to imagine who is worse, Hillary or Trump. ah, Politics American Style.

  • The Lone Banana says:

    It says "52 responses" to this post, but I see only two. Must be some kind of personal problem.

  • @Jestbill: Smarter, better informed folk than myself have convincingly argued that the repeal hardly mattered in real terms, as the sort of deals that led to the financial crisis were already being made and rubber-stamped while Glass- Steagal was still in place anyway.

    Apologies for that sentence, by the way.

  • Is it really that hard? Try these: NATFA, WTO, sentencing "reform," and all that stuff about super predators. Oh, and lets not forget the Arkansas eduction reform debacle. Add in that she has never been right on foreign policy, basically voting with McCain (R – Nursing Homes) to bomb everything in sight, and roadblocked the Iran deal for four strait years as SecState.


  • Seriously.

    Nothing on your list is a reason to vote Trump or fail to vote.

    And your reading comprehension could use some work.


  • @ Ursula Says: I shall be the one who reveals the first 50 comments

    I thought my credit card needed a chip

  • 'Whenever I encounter someone who talks about what a nightmare the Bill Clinton years were, I really push them on specifics. '

    Yes, then you got specifics and went non linear in the comments for the first time since I have been reading. I do wonder why….

  • @eau: Yeah, probably, but my point ws that a Clinton veto could easily (EASILY) have been overturned.
    Blaming a President for not vetoing something that was going to pass anyway is the flip side of the R's many votes against ACA.

    The Clinton presidency was horrible and rotten. The worst ever except for any other that was available to us at the time.

  • And then there's this today:

    Those who insist that a Trump presidency will "wake people up" can just go the fuck to hell. I am a Bernie supporter, but I'm also a grown up and realize that history shows that before people "wake up" an idiot can wreak a hell of a lot of havoc. It's easy for people like Sarandon to say bring it on, she has enough money to ride out the storm. I like Bernie but some of his supporters are just nucking futs.

  • seniorscrub says:

    "The Clinton presidency was horrible and rotten. The worst ever except for any other that was available to us at the time."

    This could possibly be said for 40 out of 44 Presidents…

    As Churchill said "…democracy is the worst form of Government except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time".

  • Ed, it's time for a new category archive for your posts — "Election 2016" ( For the homepage sidebar, below "Election 2008", "Election 2010", and "Election 2012". )

    One love! Jah!

  • glenn: Just you wait. The Tyrant Muslim Atheist Homosexual has not initiated Operation Chicago Mandingo yet. There WILL BE NO 2016 ELECTION!


  • @J_Dryden A few times a month during my travels, I pass this farm house. The farm house has a nice front yard which its occupants have angrily posted big, white painted, wooden signs that say things in capital black letters like (paraphrased) "AMERICA DIED WHEN OBAMA WAS ELECTED" and "GREAT TYRANTS AND DICTATORS: HITLER, STALIN, TOJO, POL POT, OBAMA.." etc, you get the idea. Since about a few months ago, they had posted a new wooden sign and this is what it says (verbatim): "DITCH THE LYING BITCH".

    So, your post rang pretty true for me.

  • i always laugh when i hear Eisenhower described as lefty. proof of how "lost" any connection of words and reality. it is entertaining, though. lots of laugh. just wish Colbert was back on his old show.

    when comics tell the truth, the court jester is the only allowed to tell the truth.

    just amazing to think all these Crooks/Cheney et al. all came in with Gerald Ford.

    but i forget St. Reagan had already destroyed any opposition. Doing away with societal rules and regulations has a peculiar effect on power crazed Rich folks.

  • Grung_e_Gene says:

    Im totally mad about the banking deregulation bill which allowed the banks to turn themselves into crooked casinos with Americans money! You know the one named Clinton-Clinton-Clinton signed by Hillary! Oh wait it actually was crafted by Phil Graham, the Republican Senator from Texas who went to work for UBS and aided 50,000 americans hide unaccounted billions in switzerland at the end of W(orst POTUS Ever) administration. But hey lets just blame Bill cause context is hard.

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