In many ways the Roy Moore phenomenon is a harsher indictment of all the things wrong with this society than Trump's victory 13 months ago. As many observers have said all along, Trump is only a symptom of what the GOP has done to embrace nationalist, racist, clannish right-wing populism and xenophobia since the 1980s (but accelerating sharply during the W years when "court the evangelicals at all cost" became party dogma).

Moore's campaign is also doing a lot to give the lie to the centrist mantra that there are Good People on all sides and we will overcome our differences with dialogue. As Charles Pierce (hi!) said after his attempt to take in Monday evening's Moore rally:

You grow exhausted from the effort it takes to keep mockery at bay long enough to explain that what Moore and Bannon are selling is a dangerous blend of religious extremism and McCarthyite bombast, Roy Cohn in Torquemada drag. You grow exhausted by the effort it takes, over and over again, to remind yourself that there are good people in the crowd cheering this river of sludge and nonsense.

Finally, you give up. Roy Moore is a vehicle for collecting suckers, for liberating them from their responsibility as citizens in a self-governing republic, and anybody who thinks this waterheaded theocrat belongs in the United States Senate is a dupe and a fool. Finally, you don’t care if the people behind Roy Moore, and the people in the crowd in front of him, believe you are a member of the coastal elite or an agent of Lucifer. Finally, you grow weary of the smug condescension of religious bigots.

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Finally, you decide to put down the twin burdens of excusing deliberate ignorance and respecting the opinions of people who want to light the world on fire to kill their imaginary enemies. And you give up and tell the truth.

These people deserve what they get.
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tl;dr – At some point you have to recognize that these are adult human beings making a choice, not hapless Good People being "bamboozled" (that word is all the rage lately) into supporting a theocratic demagogue. It's exhausting and unnecessary. Eventually we have to call this what it is: a bunch of really shitty people getting exactly what they want.

In the long run, they will deserve every bit of what happens to them.

49 thoughts on “NO PASSING FANCY”

  • "In the long run, they will deserve every bit of what happens to them."

    But when the shit hits the fan, don't you think for a f'ing nanosecond that these fuckers will take responsibility for ANY of this shit.

  • As often as I indulge the pleasant fantasy of Republicans losing their homes, businesses, and life's savings, dying bankrupt, sick, and alone … what I really want is for none of us to be threatened by consequences like that.

    When the Wind Blows

  • Except, of course (as we all know), we will "get it" as well. :(

    The fantasies of a lottery prize and a relocation to New Zealand or Portugal or Uruguay are (not usefully) dominating my thoughts lately. (Canada is way too close).

    Megamillions would be $60 million after taxes tonight.

  • "these people get what they deserve"

    When Bush & Co. drove the global economy over a cliff, we lost our jobs and struggled for years to regain a measure of middle-class normalcy (sans any retirement savings). Trump & Co. seem to be driving twice as fast towards a similar cliff, I don't know why the current wall street mood is so happy but that can change anytime.

    @Guy – When the shit hits the fan the shitty people will jump on the nearest "don't blame me" bandwagon, just like they did with Bush. @Driftglass writes about this extensively, with special attention paid to the million dollar hairdos that are already lined up for the belt-way media lifeboats that will whisk them away from the soon-to-be burning hulk of another GOP wrought disaster into new pundit sinecures where they continue to peddle both-siderism, whataboutism, and violently ignore anything the left has been saying for the last 40 years.

    I understand the appeal of imaging the karmic justice of these hate-crazed deplorables bringing ruin down on their heads. The problem is that the rest of us will be suffering the consequences right along with these "really shitty people getting exactly what they want". Once the chaos starts those folks who aren't well insulated from the mayhem will lose everything (i.e.; not currently rich enough to live off savings for years or poor enough not to notice losing job, vehicle, home, insurance).

    My fear is that the collapse this Trump era threatens to bring will burn down the coastal cities first and then slowly wend its way inward to eventually reach the gun-clutching deplorables in their meth and racial purity compounds. I will be an unburied corpse on a post-apocalyptic Long Island years before the people who voted to 'burn it all down' get whats coming to them. Sad.

  • It is beginning to appear as if The Ghost Dance may be working, you're killing yourselves off. Too bad you're taking the rest of us with you.

    I would argue their status as "human". Less than sufficiently evolved.

  • Unfortunately, the thing that this group of evil and stupid people wants more than anything is for liberal/black/brown/educated/Northern/city/artist /union/disabled/etc. people to be rounded up and put into concentration camps.
    So I truly hope they don't get what they want.

  • You used to hear "can't be too thin or rich."
    I wonder if there's a new one for that sad, cynical list:
    either well set or insulated enough to insist on getting your way and don't have to give a shit what happens.
    It's childish – the moral opposite of thinking things through to the seventh generation. Purely indulgent and selfish.
    Neil Young told us long ago what the deal is with (some of) Alabama.

  • 'Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard.'

    H. L. Mencken

  • Sigh. The perpetual problem of how to manipulate the lower classes.
    Religion of some sort.
    Bread and circuses.
    Divert the hate to an out group, not the elite upper class.
    Lies, disinformation, and propaganda, of course.
    Sending dissenters to the coliseum, the gallows, all varieties of prisons.
    Hiring mercenaries/enlisting state police/military to massacre rioters.

    You'd think we'd have figured out how to curb this shit by now and tax our oligarchy perpetually into merely upper middle class status.

    [Beulah, peel me a grape!]

  • Leading Edge Boomer says:

    I had not been reading Charles Pierce, but I clicked the link and am now looking forward to reading whatever he writes.

  • Unfortunately, there are going to be a lot of people dragged down with them – but yeah, there's not a lot of room for anyone voting for Moore to maneuver around what they're doing.

    But considering how little thought many voters seem to give to policy matters, or much resembling reality, I expect many who imagine their poor choices will only harm people they don't know are likely to be in for a rude shock.

  • "My fear is that the collapse this Trump era threatens to bring will burn down the coastal cities first and then slowly wend its way inward to eventually reach the gun-clutching deplorables in their meth and racial purity compounds."

    Not sure this will be the case. Jesusland is if anything far more subject to the vicissitudes of the global economy and social and economic decline they don't have the deep resources of education.

  • All the noise made about deep strategies and dog whistles falls flat for me. I’m more inclined to believe that this current phase of destructiveness is exactly what it appears to be on its face: true believers of one sort or another desiring to burn down the house with everyone in it. Dark populism if you prefer. It’s not even clear that they believe an eventual benefit will accrue to a select few. That’s one reason why our current president and Roy Moore were such attractive candidates: they’re both walking, talking disruption. I almost get it but can’t agree that this is the way to conduct ourselves as a society or nation.

  • Trump is merely a puss-filled cyst on top of a rotting body politic, riddled with capitalism and racism. Once Trump is gone, we'll probably be left to fight more competent foes.

  • If my job had been sent to China so that some billionaire could make an even bigger profit, and I had watched helplessly as the so called party of working people had spent a quarter century kissing up to Wall Street and telling unions to get bent, I'd probably vote for Roy Moore too as a way of extending my middle finger at feckless "liberals" who stood by and let it all happen while telling me I'm scum.

  • c u n d gulag says:

    "These people deserve what they get."

    That would be fine, wondeful even, if "they" were the only ones who got the "get" the deserve.

    Unfortunately, they'll take "us" with "them" when/if they "get" it.
    Hell, they WANT TO take us with them!

    These are the same types of people who don't mind getting shafted by government they vote for, as long as they believe that minorities and women get it even orse.

    So, if they do "get" what they deserve – unfortunately, the chances are really overwhelming that we'll end up with them, whether we want to or not – they'll still revel at not only the destruction that they caused, but that we'll have to suffer with them.
    And in their ten-times-too-small hearts, they'll convince themselves as they're going to be homeless, sick or die, that we'll be suffering the same fate – but even worse than they are.

    It's how these "people" roll.

  • I am so tired of hearing how bad Alabama is. as if the rest of the South is any different. Just been the Southern way to appear nice and cordial. while they stab you in the back, to make sure nothing upsets "their Way."

    the stink of greed and getting over is the American Way/Dream. we all want to be Billionaires now, used to want to be a Millionaire. our whole culture is built around "getting over." Alabama and the South were just more direct in their viciousness. a thin veneer of courtesy and politeness to deflect the "I've got mine, you can go "F" yourself.

    That a religious pedophile like Moore can even run for Senate!! the blatant
    hypocrisy that is Republicanism/Greed– Stand out of my Way!

    i am really taken aback at the "sudden" vitrol for Trump or Moore, or any of the Republican or Democratic "woe is me" drama.

    this CON has been going on for a long time. since the Kent State shootings proved the Establishment/Elites would kill their own children who dared raise a "Hell No we wont go" to Vietnam" chants, this has been the underlying Society America is and has been.

    to be outraged now is good. Better late than never.

  • Karl: While I get your point:

    1. Trump's core electoral support is not poor, broken down white working class voters. They don't always vote in large numbers. It's the Jesus freaks who attend megachurches and live in lily white gated suburbs. More the successful used car dealer than the laid off factory dealer.

    2. How the hell is voting for a Roy Moore or a Donald Trump going to answer your complaint? What in their history would lead to that conclusion? Voters should be educated, and a spiteful "burn the place down" is not going to address the problems you note.

  • Addie Mae Collins, Cynthia Wesley, Carole Robertson and Carol Denise McNair

    The GOP has succeeded because of the people who approve of the murderers of these little girls.

    The GOP is the party of death.

  • Black women saved our country, again.

    Fuck Bernie wanting to court the MAGA-heads. We win by expanding and motivating our base, not by compromise.

    Congrats to Doug Jones and Alabama.

  • @wetcasements

    Yay… you beat a pedophile racist by one percentage point! Good for you. I hope all your political enemies are such cartoonishly evil pieces of shit that white people simply don't show up to vote for them.

    How well do you think this is all going to work against more well-heeled, less openly-racist/openly-rapist Republicans?

    How well do you think this is going to work in states with a larger percentage of white voters, where PoCs can't throw themselves at the barricades on your behalf?

    A more sustainable strategy is to court the working class (which is, I'll remind you, composed in large part of PoCs as well) in the face of more competent capitalists. The vast majority of Trump supporters, as has been pointed out a number of times, are well-to-do middle-class+ whites with a median income of $70,000 ( They're the petit bourgeoisie, the backbones of fascism in pretty much every western country.

    So… these are not the kinds of people Bernie Sanders or anyone on the socialist wing of the Democratic party is courting! The reality is that poor whites (although having innate racial privileges), have gotten pretty well fucked by capital. If you hope to defeat the smarter GOP fascist or fight this battle in a state where there aren't enough PoCs to serve as the bullet-proof vest to white idiocy, you're going to need a broader strategy than hoping the other guy is such a monumental caricature that you have to support literal pedophelia just to elect them.

  • Addendum:

    Please don't misconstrue my cynicism about the limits of the lessons we can draw from Alabama to mean that I am not happy that Doug Jones won. I'm happy that he did, and would have voted for the guy given the opportunity.

    I just don't think it's a good idea to extrapolate a nonsense centrist strategy from a race where one opponent was a decent human being and the other was a literal racist pedophile (that we still only won by a percentage point). Alabama and Roy Moore aren't particularly reflective of the American political landscape. Most other racists know to hide their racism behind libertarian rhetoric and policies (which Americans of all colors are suckers for).

    Very few other races are going to look anything like that one, and they're going to require better strategy, politics and ideology than "I'm not a racist pedophile, vote for me".

  • Will the R's say Moore lost because he wasn't conservative enough? Hard to imagine being more conservative but I'm sure someone in office must be.

    Luther Strange would have won by 10%. Shows how the Primaries can screw the "traditionalists".

    Watch the R's start paying a lot more attention to who's on the ballots in the primaries.

  • My vote is that we set the capital gains tax at 40+% and make Planned Parenthood the sole recipient for reproductive-related Medicare and Medicaid funding.

    And enforce the law against Churches politically campaigning.

  • @jcdenton:

    Socialist wing of the democratic party? I'm not hearing about a group of dems wanting to STEER the DNC back to the course that they're supposed to be on. I'm hearing–not from you, but others here–, "Fuck the DNC and their rank and file stooges! Move over and let US run things!". That strategy, I assure you, will not be winning any major races 11 month from now*.

    Getting wimpy, soft-on-oligarch dems back in charge is a STEP toward sanity.

    Voting progressives into lower office and having them work their way up while building genuine structural elements and establishing funding apparatus that do not depend on massive "gray market" donations from corporate entities is a STEP.

    Fielding candidates who don't court ANY single bloc of voters while ignoring/demonizing others is a STEP.

    There are other STEPS that should/must be taken to wrest the power of governance from the hands of those who seek to use it ONLY for their own selfish and hateful agendas.

    In order to take any of those steps, though, YOU–again, not meaning the "jcdenton 'YOU' "–must first put on your fucking shoes and then wear them out. YOU have to go to boring fucking meetings where self-importan shitheads drone on for long periods about the urgency of cutting taxes for the country club set while raising the price of an overtime parking ticket to $50 'cuz budgetary shortfalls–etc. YOU have to knock on doors and smile while trying to patiently explain to angry people why voting against their interestst got them into the fix that they are now in. YOU have to support, vocally, visibly and locally–YOUR candidate or the candidate that won who is, if not the best, at least better than the other candidate.

    NO magic. Fucktons of hard, hard work. It's all NUMBERS. Neither YOU, nor I, nor anyone else wins anything with platitudes–ever.

    As I said at the beginning of this screed, it's not directed at the jcdenton "YOU". You may, of course, take any bits that work for you and apply them. I will continue to do what I do which is work on the youngs I meet off of the intertoobz to see if I can get them to understand that informed participation and voting are not just rights but duties of citizenship.*

    Thus endeth the rant.

    * democommie hears stirring drum roll, realizes it's only an old fart's fart and lights a candle!

    * I'll be fucking THRILLED to be wrong.

  • I got involved and forgot to post this:

    So, Ol'Roy went down–at least as of the current results–who knows what perfidy the Alabama Elections Commission might get up to. One holds on to hope.

    I would like to say in the spirit of conciliation…

    Thank you, to the good people of Alabama who stood up to the shitstorm of GOP soft money, Trumpliguturdlican spokesslugs and the Pussygrabber-in-Chief.

    Fuck the rest of you benighted, indignorant, racist, xenophobic, woman-hating, religidiots.

    1 down, several hundred to go–at least!

    Carry on.

  • I think Ed's the one for this question.

    How did the numbers from yesterday's election compare with the previous ones in Alabama (I realize that the circumstances don't match a normal election–if there is even such a thing, anymore) and how much greater were the democratic majorities in the cities than they normally are.

    Also, how bad would Jones have been beaten if the assault allegations had not been made public?

  • I think both jdenton and demo make good points. Not sure I agree with this though:

    "Alabama and Roy Moore aren't particularly reflective of the American political landscape"

    Because if it is not racist pedophilia, it will be the ammosexuals or the the "save my coal jobs because it is the only thing I wanna do" people or the sheer religious wackaloons who are not limited to the Deep South.

  • Brian – Corey Robin observes that the reactionary mind will grab whatever is available to rationalize resistance to a felt loss of power. The excuses change with the circumstances, but the underlying authoritarian brain persists.

  • @ Brian M: "1. Trump's core electoral support is… the Jesus freaks who attend megachurches and live in lily white gated suburbs."

    Certainly true in my family. Makes me sad. I never would have thought of them as racists, but now that racism is required to belong to the tribe they're, if not all in, in enough.

  • @jcdenton—

    “Most other racists know to hide their racism behind libertarian rhetoric and policies (which Americans of all colors are suckers for).“

    Not to nitpick, but that is predominantly white people shit. POC can tell when someone is being a racist, it’s convincing white people to recognize their own racism or racist-adjacent behavior that’s the problem. White people typically react badly to being called out, so half the time it’s not even worth it to speak up. Donald Trump’s appeal was in that he allows racist white people to support racist ideas and help implement racist policies while telling them they’re not racists for it.

  • @ Aurora:

    To some of us, a group of people entering a sports bar and heading for one area, only to turn around and make a beeline for another is, "Guess they wouldn't be able to see their game from over there.".

    For the POC who are SITTING in the area they abruptly did a 180 from it's, "Guess they would be in fear for their lives.".

  • Heard a hilarious rant on the radio this afternoon; guy from Alabama (he self-identified) carrying on about how Moore lost–not because he's a deplorable human being with insane, racist views, not because the POC of Alabama and their allies worked so very hard at getting out the vote…nope, he didn't win because the GOP didn't support him (financially, he meant) and because "The DNC gave everything to Jones."

  • Have to admit I was pleasantly surprised, and it goes to show what a huge debt we owe to the POC who got out the vote for him.

  • Rude Pundit:

    Democrats need to understand that the black vote has now saved them in Alabama as it did in Virginia. It's time to go even further and, to continue the quote above, "that means, in as many cases as it is possible, nominating and running non-white candidates." African Americans, and especially African American women, are trying to save this country from the stupidity of our inexhaustible white ignorance. It's time to center the concerns of non-white communities in the Democratic Party and not just ask them to vote, time and again, without those things being addressed.

    2. As I've also said repeatedly, fuck the white working class. Fuck them. When their needs cross with those of the non-white working class voters you're courting, then great. And you know what? Most of those needs do cross because they are class-based. They need health care, poverty programs, jobs programs, decent education. Democrats keep wanting to pretend that racist fucknuts can be appealed to based on class. It's a comforting lie that is proven to be bullshit time and again. Roy Moore got 92% of the white vote, and that motherfucker was a wretched candidate before it was revealed he finger-fucked a 14 year-old. This country doesn't belong exclusively to white people anymore. The Republicans are fighting a desperate battle to try to maintain that white dominance. They will lose.

    So no more fucking speeches about how we "understand" the pain of the white working class. It's up to the the white working class to fucking get that Democrats are the only ones who give a shit about their pain and economic hardship. And no more fucking articles about dumb fucks who are clinging to Donald Trump. They are dumb fucks. Let them drown in their stupidity for a few minutes before we throw them the life preserver.


  • @democommie

    Agreed about the hard work bit and starting at the grassroots. There are at least a few people and organizations trying to do just that (again, DSA, WFP and Justice Democrats are all reformist wings in the Dem party itself).

    I'm personally not a big fan of TYT, but here is an example of Nomiki Konst taking the DNC to task for spending $800,000,000 on just five consultants during the '16 election. That's 800 million dollars going to just five people, while local parties were starved for cash (

    Electing corrupt, pro-capitalist fifth-column democrats just isn't enough anymore.

    @Brian M

    "Because if it is not racist pedophilia, it will be the ammosexuals or the the "save my coal jobs because it is the only thing I wanna do" people or the sheer religious wackaloons who are not limited to the Deep South."

    After this election, the GOP is going to be looking a lot more carefully at who ends up in the primaries. Also, while capitalist snakes like Paul Ryan and Ted Cruz deserve the guillotine, they also know how to sound "respectable" while keeping their dicks mostly in their pants. Running a boring, decent dude against someone like Ryan will fail.

    @Aurora S

    Agreed, but PoCs still get taken in by capitalist bullshit all the time. Remember when Obama was all on board with Charter Schools before everyone suddenly realized it was just a re-segregationist and capitalist racket (

    That said, you are right in that formal libertarianism is almost exclusively a white, racist ideology these days.


    "As I've also said repeatedly, fuck the white working class. Fuck them. When their needs cross with those of the non-white working class voters you're courting, then great. And you know what? Most of those needs do cross because they are class-based. They need health care, poverty programs, jobs programs, decent education. Democrats keep wanting to pretend that racist fucknuts can be appealed to based on class. It's a comforting lie that is proven to be bullshit time and again."

    Again, I'd like to remind you that the median household income for Trump supporters is 70-73K (we don't have income breakdowns for Moore supporters, but I would guess that it would be above working-class median).

    The issue isn't supporting the *white* working class… it's supporting *the* working class! Democrats are generally equally terrible at supporting the PoC working class as they are the white working class, when under the thrall of capital. Doug Jones is a decent human being, but he didn't exactly run a class war campaign.

    As a start, Democrats need to be fighting for higher minimum wages, stronger unions, higher taxes on the rich, sweeping regulation and the nationalization of certain programs that cannot be left to capitalism to manage (health care, prisons, public transport, education). When Democrats begin supporting *the* working class, they will more or less be automatically supporting both the white and PoC working class (a few significant differences, like voter suppression and justice system reform aside).

  • @jcdenton:

    This is tongue-in-cheek but with a grain of mustardy truth:

    If you have 10 or more "direct reports" then the GOP is prolly your party.

    If you have 5-10 direct reports you may think that it's your party.

    If you 0-4 direct reports you might want to consider the dems.

    if you are a direct report you should prolly think strongly about being a dem.

    If you don't what a direct report is, we're your guys.

  • demo: The problem is the petite bourgies. The used car dealers, accountants, and others who slavishly follow American millenarian protestant heresies and have retreated to the gated 'burbs.

    Plus, why should the "direct reports" be a Dem when, as jcdenton points out, said party is slavishly devoted to the interests of the same vampire squid class?

  • In concurrence with jcdenton and Brian M and opposition to the oft-repeated "fuck the white working class, stop trying to reach out to those scumbags" rhetoric:

    When a person is offered a choice between a party that is going to fuck them, and a party that is going to fuck them while ALSO telling them that they're worthless pieces of racist shit regardless of their actual personal behavior, which they will choose is entirely predictable. Spoilers: It won't be the one sing-songing to them about their "privilege" while they scrape some muck out of the gutter to maybe give their kids half a meal tonight. A very vivid recent history full of corporatist Democrats is not inspiring to those people, even if the policies have gotten a little bit better.

  • I'm not sure what to say to people who consistently lambaste the dems for not being completely attuned to the wants and needs of everybody. This the same party that loses black voters for not doing enough for them or white bigots for doing too much for black voters.Substitute other groups, rinse and repeat. The GOP's promise seems to be, "Let us fuck everyone, we promise to fuck you less and them more!".

    Trumpliguturds voted based on their racism, resistance to "federalism" and religious bigotry–that changing is not a good possibility.

    "Sing songing about their privilege."? Who are we talking about here?

  • @GunstarGreen

    I'm perfectly fine with calling out white racism. It's a bedrock of the right-wing political system and a perfect wedge for capital to drive between white and PoC workers. There is a long and storied history of capital using racism in the US as just such a wedge. But the WWC also has agency, and part of that agency is rejecting racism.

    The issue is primarily the inability recognize that working class whites are not the main supporters of fascism, the petit bourgeoise are, just as they were in Weimar Germany. The WWC is just as powerless (despite a number of built-in racial privileges), in many cases, as PoCs are. Blaming them entirely for the racism that has been foisted on them (and they have stupidly accepted) by capitalism through literal centuries of propaganda is a little disingenuous however.


    Dems were, up until recently, perfectly attuned to the needs of capital, and no one else. They've been great at supporting union busting, welfare "reform", banking regulation "reform", NAFTA and Charter schools. They've voted in favor of foreverwar and expanding the security state. They aren't "not completely attuned to the wants and needs of everybody", they are only attuned to the needs of wealthy donors. That kind of has to change and is changing very slowly I believe.

    Besides, what has compromise with bigots and the wealthy ever gotten the Dems? 1043 seats lost over 8 years. Progressive policy rollback on all fronts. The power of capital is greater than ever and all we got was the ACA to show for it. If you're going to lose that badly, might as well do it while fighting for something that matters.

  • My comment wound up in moderation:

    Sorry if this results in duplication:

    Part 1 of 2:


    C'mon, the GOP has been trying to OUTLAW unions, since Samuel Gomper's AFL (actually going back further, like Matewan).

    Reagan won the union voters over with RACISM and some baffling bullshit about growing the economy. He fulfilled the promises on racism.


    was 37 years ago.

    One of Raygunz'z first of many dickmoves was to shitcan 13K Air Traffic Controllers and the gutting of PATCO. Fucking the people who vote for them is not an incidental thing with republicans.


    indicates that they are still willing to hand the knives to the guys who will geld them.


    actually says that the exit pollsters are wrong and that it was Jill Stein ans Gary Johnson who siphoned off the 8% difference between those union homes that helped elect Trumpligulamygdala and those who voted for the Shebeastemailer from HELLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!

    That may or may not be true. What nobody seems to be disputing in that article is that roughly 42% of unionized voters cast their ballots for republicans who have done everything in their power to fuck the working man in general and the union workers in particular since organized labor became a "thing".

    And that's only three instances. And it's only one of several groups who should be voting for the people whose STATED goals don't include fucking them.

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